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  1. #1
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    What do you believe?

    What do you really believe? Is there a God? Is this life all that there is? I have read a fair bit of philosophy and pose these questions because I believe that life is not nonsense. I donít fit in with faiths or dogmas and my belief isnít wholly derived from books or the understanding of creeds. I was brought up a strict Roman Catholic but my life experience has led me away from the security of being in a Faith. The reason I pose the question is simply because I believe that there is a reason for living. The question now can be reduced to methods of understanding, and philosophical discourse, however I would like you to keep in mind the question what do you believe?
    Oh as I was young and easy in the mercy of his means,
    Time held me green and dying
    Though I sang in my chains like the sea.

    Dylan Thomas

  2. #2
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    Christianity and the bible are 'true', in that they portray facts about God. However they are incomplete because they don't really cover WHY God is the way He is, or deal with His true nature at a fundamental level. Suffice to say there are elements of truth in other religions as well.

    Bur God is not an individual, that's for sure...He's a multiple.
    True poetry is fluid in time and space, and the words are indefinite

  3. #3
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    Faith

    I think with the bible there is a paternal idea of God. I think that family, and the concept of family love plays a part in the creation of these ideas. The bible is powerful for that reason. However as individuals within the normative, people construct their own belief systems, as in dropping out or having a vocation. Most people remain indebted to the family for keeping faith in life. My question is what do you actually believe uniquely to yourself? I consider my belief that life is not chance or without reason to be something that I do actually believe, it is not convention or following a perceived normative but springs from the essence of my being. Other than that everything is in the world to be observed. I think it is faith without the conditions of established religion.
    Oh as I was young and easy in the mercy of his means,
    Time held me green and dying
    Though I sang in my chains like the sea.

    Dylan Thomas

  4. #4
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    What you are asking is very interesting, because it requires a personal revelation from God to learn or experience a unique truth about him. I suspect many people have personal revelations of God but fail to talk about them for fear of being labelled as nutcases.
    True poetry is fluid in time and space, and the words are indefinite

  5. #5
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    Sus

    AAK you will get there cos you'r lookin !
    Oh as I was young and easy in the mercy of his means,
    Time held me green and dying
    Though I sang in my chains like the sea.

    Dylan Thomas

  6. #6
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    I think that man created God as a byproduct of a big brain. We have the inate desire to seek patterns and draw conclusions to help us survive. Where we find no explanations we must infer from what we observe of cause and effect. The more potential danger and the less knowledge we have about our surroundings- the more we create a mythology to set our minds at ease or our collective minds at ease. Religion has served an important function in civilization. It helps us to learn to cooperate, delay self-gratification, and treat those around us with compassion.

    Even though this is what I believe I am not an atheist. I am open to the possibility of God. If there are new facts or conclusions to draw I am open. However, Faith alone without reason does not appeal to me.

    When we are such a blip on the radar in the evolution of the earth and the history of the species what makes us think we have such a special role in the eyes of God?
    What would be the purpose in God not openly revealing him/herself? (free will has its own set of problems that I'm sure we will discuss)
    Why would any one want to serve a mass murdering god like the christian god? We rightly despise Hitler for killing millions of Jews, Gypsys, etc. but God would allow much more than that to be eternally tortured for no other reason that not worshiping him? HOw arrogant and cruel. I think if a god like that existed I would have to make a consciencious choice not to serve him out of my sense of moral obligation.
    this is an interesting topic to me. I would love to have a dialogue on it.
    Last edited by katel2; 11-17-2008 at 01:28 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by padmar View Post
    AAK you will get there cos you'r lookin !
    What do you mean?
    True poetry is fluid in time and space, and the words are indefinite

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by katel2 View Post
    Faith alone without reason does not appeal to me.

    No religion as far as I know expects blind faith without reason. There is some logic in most of them.

    The ones that offer historical evidences of a divine figure appeal to me because they can be backed up by history; providing documents written at the time the events occurred, and evidence from external sources.
    True poetry is fluid in time and space, and the words are indefinite

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by katel2 View Post
    When we are such a blip on the radar in the evolution of the earth and the history of the species what makes us think we have such a special role in the eyes of God?
    The evolution-theory actually puts mankind in a very special position, we have acquired a few fascinating qualities which are unrivaled in the history of life. We are a blip on the radar time wise. But the impact we have, the things we have developed, and our invention of art, culture, literature and especially self-reflection puts us in the most special role anything has ever had.

    What would be the purpose in God not openly revealing him/herself? (free will has its own set of problems that I'm sure we will discuss)
    If he would reveal himself to everyone, in an way everyone would believe him. Then it wouldn't be faith anymore, but knowledge. A fundamental aspect of religion is that it is not revealed, and that one has to act towards God. Why would you reward someone for believing something that is right before his eyes? There are plenty of more arguments... but I'll try to keep it not too long.

    Why would any one want to serve a mass murdering god like the christian god? We rightly despise Hitler for killing millions of Jews, Gypsys, etc. but God would allow much more than that to be eternally tortured for no other reason that not worshiping him?
    1. The Christian God has never murdered anyone. Neither has any other God that I know of. If he would've, then he would've revealed himself. Which, as you stated yourself, he hasn't.
    2. You can not blame God for acts of people who claim to do it in his name. Like you can't blame a soccer coach for the acts of soccer hooligans.
    3. The eternal torture is a reference to 'hell' I suppose? Well, hell is a very tricky thing. Especially for it barely being backed up by the Bible.

    Quote Originally Posted by padmar View Post
    AAK you will get there cos you'r lookin !
    Someone else said the same thing years ago

    Matthew 7:7 (New International Version)
    7 Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.




    Footnote:
    The arguments stated above are not from a personal perspective. They are not issued from the view of a believer. They are strictly rational. My personal believes I will never tell anyone about online

    In principio erat Verbum

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by KneD View Post
    The evolution-theory actually puts mankind in a very special position, we have acquired a few fascinating qualities which are unrivaled in the history of life. We are a blip on the radar time wise. But the impact we have, the things we have developed, and our invention of art, culture, literature and especially self-reflection puts us in the most special role anything has ever had.
    That seems too much of an opinion. One could also say that the things we've developed also are some of the most terrible things. Sentient beings are far more cruel to their world. The impact on the world around us has largely been negative in the recent years. Our "special" position allows us to kill off other creatures, who also have acquired a few fascinating qualities which are unrivaled in the history of life, without hardly noticing.

    Quote Originally Posted by KneD View Post
    If he would reveal himself to everyone, in an way everyone would believe him. Then it wouldn't be faith anymore, but knowledge. A fundamental aspect of religion is that it is not revealed, and that one has to act towards God. Why would you reward someone for believing something that is right before his eyes? There are plenty of more arguments... but I'll try to keep it not too long.
    I think just the opposite, that's the point. There's never an ending to an argument about religion. I would feel like I could believe and it would be much more of a special occasion if I had the "knowledge" of God, rather than a blind belief or "faith". Everyone is different, are they not? Why then, didn't God alter his existence for those of us who can't just believe? We're damned because we think differently?

    Quote Originally Posted by KneD View Post
    1. The Christian God has never murdered anyone. Neither has any other God that I know of. If he would've, then he would've revealed himself. Which, as you stated yourself, he hasn't.
    2. You can not blame God for acts of people who claim to do it in his name. Like you can't blame a soccer coach for the acts of soccer hooligans.
    3. The eternal torture is a reference to 'hell' I suppose? Well, hell is a very tricky thing. Especially for it barely being backed up by the Bible.
    In the Old Testament God did command the murder and torture of many a tribe and people. God commanded more than once to kill all women and men and keep the young virgins as slaves. Either you disbelieve the Bible, or your first point is just not right. If you believe the Bible, then you're saying because God didn't physically kill anyone, he's not responsible, simply because he only commanded it?

    Quote Originally Posted by KneD View Post
    Footnote:
    The arguments stated above are not from a personal perspective. They are not issued from the view of a believer. They are strictly rational. My personal believes I will never tell anyone about online
    Mine are of my own beliefs, but my intention isn't to attack any beliefs. When I feel I see holes in statements I just ask the questions that can fill them for me. I fill holes on sides I don't even agree with.
    ďWhen choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've never tried before.Ē

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