introducing detective stories

[margaine]

I thought you'd all be entertained to know that I have to do a little class discussion on anything related to detective stories. :) It is for some high school aged students that are learning English (as that is my job now, to work with french high schoolers that are learning english). I can do whatever I want, the teacher just said "detective stories"

I'm not sure if I'll be back in time to hear suggestions, because the classes are on Thursday. But I'd be curious about what you think and I'll try my best to get back.

I was thinking of going over vocabulary related to detective and crime novels. And giving them an excerpt from something (maybe a kids-level book so they can learn about what American kids past or present have read for detective stories) and then having them understand as well as predict what might happen in the story. There are so many options - Alfred Hitchcock and the Three Investigators (my favorite!), Nancy Drew or Hardy Boys (neither are favorites of mine, but maybe I could find a good excerpt anyay), perhaps Agatha Christie (I forget what the vocab is like in her writing? Too hard for mid-range learners?), perhaps an excerpt from a TV show - like the first few minutes of some random episode of Law and Order where they come upon a body or something. Fun, huh? If only I could figure out what I'm actually going to do! I only have about 50 minutes, too, so it can't be something too complex.

[margaine]

well, since it is easily available to download on Projet Gutenberg, I think I'm going to pick a passage or two from Conan Doyle's A Study in Scarlet. I should be able to find something good in there because it has a lot about Holmes' methods. I also like it because it is connected to the US and I am somewhat of a cultural representative/ambassador of the US here at my job (which is highly amusing in many ways).

[Star_Anise]

Sounds like fun, margaine. I'd offer some advice but I think your plan so far is a good one - but I'm curious as to what your vocab list will look like:) Let us know how it goes.

[Jez]

I was going to mention Holmes. His short stories might be good especially because you can read an entire story and discuss it all in 50 minutes.

I'm interested in hearing how it goes. :)

[Winifred]

If you need something simpler, I'd suggest Encyclopedia Brown, for simplified vocabulary. Might be too simple, though. I remember reading The Little Prince in high school French, I think even first year, and how much I enjoyed it! Although the profundity isn't there, it's clever and fun: http://www.amazon.com/Encyclopedia-Brown-Detective-Donald-Sobol/dp/0553157248#_

Here's a lesson plan, but I'm not familiar with "Worldcat," so I don't know how accessible his books would be to you.http://www.learnnc.org/lp/pages/3031

[margaine]

well, I taught one section this morning with this Sherlock Holmes thing, and I'll be teaching another one this afternoon. I can also repeat the lesson next week with a different group of kids. so there's plenty of time for revision. but so far it seems to work.

The sad thing about not having regular internet is not having the time to scour the web for lesson plans like the one you've found Winifred. Thanks! And the strange thing about the level of kids (equivalent to 9th or 10th grade because they are in their first year of high school) is that there is a huge variety in terms of their abilities in English. Some of the kids understood everything I said and most of the excerpt from Holmes, while others understood almost nothing (though they were also unwilling to make the effort).

They knew a lot of mystery-related words though since they'd already started working on that in their regular class. But I taught them "crime scene" at least ;). They knew murderer, detective, mystery, investigation etc, etc. The topic of detective stories opens the door to a wide range of (interesting!) vocabulary.

One kid was insisting that Sherlock Holmes was French. Then I asked the class "where do the Sherlock Holmes stories usually take place?" and another student correctly said "London." That was a surprise to the kid who thought Holmes was a French character!

[margaine]

oh yeah, the passage I chose from A Study in Scarlet is one where the police investigator has written a letter to Holmes describing the murder scene and asking Holmes to come and help with the investigation. I like the letter because it is somewhat self-contained and it introduces the case. I can also ask students to predict what might happen - will Holmes go to the crime scene? why? how do you think the man was murdered? etc. One girl predicted right away how the guy was killed, before I even asked the question. I was pretty impressed!

Their level of English is not good enough that they could read and understand more than a short passage in one class period. But I think that a kids' book would have been too easy (though if The Three Investigators was on project gutenberg, I very well may have chosen it) for many of them. For example, in another teacher's class students in the same grade level are reading an excerpt from Jane Eyre. They do not understand all of it, but that is the sort of thing that they are expected to do.

[Rachel]

A Study In Scarlet is my absolute favorite. Love it.
Sherlock and Mycroft had an auntie that was French I believe.

[Winifred]

I thought maybe E. Brown would be oversimple. If this wasn't a one time topic, you could always use The Gold Bug, by Edgar Allan Poe. The definitive French version was translated by Baudelaire, and both are available online. My French teacher told us Poe was more respected in France than in the US.

Teaching question: If your students already knew the story, would the English be easier, or would they be bored?

[jocelynjoy]

Oh wow, in my "Watching the Detectives" crime fiction and critical theory course we were just talking about how it is super common for people who are learning an additional language (either on their own or in a class) to read a detective novel first because there is a fairly standard vocabulary and they are so formulaic- often the reader goes in either knowing the story or knowing they can probably figure it out quickly, and can concentrate on the language without having to be too confused about story. Anyways, I recently read Henning Mankell's "Faceless Killers" (English translation) and I found the language to be quite simple. I would suggest that, or anything by Mankell.

[Phantom Paragrapher]

I don't know about what its like in America , but Im guessing its the same - Penguin have bought out Classics and other books in a short , concise easy to read format and we use them in NZ and the library for teaching students/adults how to speak English in classes like IELTS and ESOL ( English as a Second Language). Other than that you do have books like Hardy Boys , Anthony Horowitz, Zac Power -HR Larry , Agent Jack Stalwart- Hunt , EJ12 , Jane Blonde, Nancy Drew, Robert Muchamore's Cherub /Henderson Boys etc that are aimed at the younger audience but would be good at first readers and teaching others to learn English.

[Rachel]

I agree with those choices. Even for those whose first language is English, but perhaps have a learning problem, I have found that especially Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys were so colorful and fun that without even realizing it the children I taught were learning to listen and put together sentences in a way they could have cared less about only weeks before. And I got to be a girl again , feeling the breezes through the windows, listening to the rain and the shocks of thunder and lightening across a black menacing sky and all the hero like things the boys and girls did as a matter of course in just a few chapters. lovely.

[Jez]

It's probably over by now, but Isaac Asimov's Union Club Mysteries are really short (a few pages) and they're fun mysteries that you can solve on your own and then turn the page to get the answer.

[margaine]

It's probably over by now, but Isaac Asimov's Union Club Mysteries are really short (a few pages) and they're fun mysteries that you can solve on your own and then turn the page to get the answer.

thanks, I'll check it out. I think the kids don't want to do any more detective stories (sad that they are bored of something so fun!), but I can keep working on that topic if I want. The teacher said it was up to me if I wanted to keep doing detective stories with them or if I wanted to start a new topic. But they are still doing detective stories in their main class.

[Winifred]

This just has to be mentioned somewhere, and a thread entitled "Introducing Detective Stories" is the best one I see.

On NPR just now: A suit against the makers of the popular soda, Mountain Dew, was dismissed. The plaintiffs had sued because they claim they found a dead mouse in their bottle. Mountain Dew defended successfully by pointing out that a mouse accidentally bottled by them would dissolve, the drink is too acidic to preserve it....

Potential mystery writers, add that one to your arsenal of potential destruction. Parents may wish to take another tack with that info...

[cafolini]

The other track could be that now we are discovering that foods with high PH can be very harmful in the long run.