THE STRANGER by Albert Camus

[Morty]

I read this about a month ago, upon the recommendation of my Dad, and I was very pleased with what I read. Again, this is a case of an author being able to understand and describe human psyche in such a sense that it might frighten, fascinate or provoke us.

The Stranger is one of those stories of an individual who is physically present, but mentally absent from society. Despite having a wonderful life in Algiers, with a beautiful woman whom loves you, somehow, somewhere something went wrong. The last few pages when the antagonist is in his cell especially made a deep impact on me. A lot of good observations there...

[skye]

I read this book in high school and I liked it. My favourite passage is where he talks about the sun - how it made him kill that guy.

[Ygraine]

I'm currently struggling through it in French, which is difficult but interesting. I have an English translation for ease, but nothing beats the original language for aesthetics

[Star_Anise]

I think I read this one a few years ago, for some English assignment. I have no idea what the assignment was, but I do remember being surprised by the book, that it could capture that sense of absence so well. A rather more depressing view of existentialism for my liking, though.

[kurosawakid]

My favourite passage is where he talks about the sun - how it made him kill that guy. Im in high school right now, i really liked the book.

[Ygraine]

I've got to do coursework about it now. Any ideas for a good question? (Not too involved please, I've got to write this in a foreign language, my grasp of which is tenuous at best)

[Morty]

"Was it wrong, or immoral, of Mersault not to cry at his mothers funeral?"

I always thought that could be an interesting question to answer.

[Ygraine]

I've opted for the following question:

Albert Camus once said "No, I'm not an existentialiste." L'Etranger therefore is not an existentialist novel. Discuss

Any thoughts on this, anyone? It's proving an interesting question, and any other input would be welcomed

[Scheherazade]

To appreciate 'The Stranger' and Camus best, I think one needs to read 'The Plague' as well. Camus changed his views and philosophies after writing 'The Stranger'.

[Azrael26]

I've opted for the following question:

Albert Camus once said "No, I'm not an existentialiste." L'Etranger therefore is not an existentialist novel. Discuss

Any thoughts on this, anyone? It's proving an interesting question, and any other input would be welcomed

You have to discuss that in relation with Jean-Paul Sartre, of course. This is Sartre's philosophy, not Camus'. Existentialism was rejected by Camus because he saw himself as a writer, not a philosopher. Although some of Sartre's books are quite good, he cannot, IMHO be considered as a novelist, whereas Camus can.

Camus is not a philosopher, he received the Nobel Prize for literature,and so did Sartre ,although he was not exactly a novelist. This may be the source of Camus' sentence, his rejection of the other one's philosophy.

But on the other hand, Camus is not Meursault, if you follow me, and what he said about the novel may not be true since he may have been influenced by Sartre's philosophy, despite his rejection of it. Writers sometimes put things they did not think would be obvious in their novels, and if he had to justify himself, it was because critics thought there was an influence.. :)

[Morty]

I've opted for the following question:

Albert Camus once said "No, I'm not an existentialiste." L'Etranger therefore is not an existentialist novel. Discuss

Any thoughts on this, anyone? It's proving an interesting question, and any other input would be welcomed
I find that a ridiculous question. You could've asked a hundred excellent questions regarding this text, and yet you choose one which is irrelevant. Be ashamed.

Camus didn't want to be labelled an existentialist, yet he wrote The Outsider and The Myth of Sisyphus, which are both existentialist texts. Historically, calling yourself an existentialist at that time was almost a trend, which would probably explain Camus's distance towards the term. No one has ever denied the relevance of Camus to existentialism.

[oceanflower]

I find that a ridiculous question. You could've asked a hundred excellent questions regarding this text, and yet you choose one which is irrelevant. Be ashamed.
.

Please remember to be respectful of what others have to say, and the questions which they ask.

[Azrael26]

I find that a ridiculous question. You could've asked a hundred excellent questions regarding this text, and yet you choose one which is irrelevant. Be ashamed.

Camus didn't want to be labelled an existentialist, yet he wrote The Outsider and The Myth of Sisyphus, which are both existentialist texts. Historically, calling yourself an existentialist at that time was almost a trend, which would probably explain Camus's distance towards the term. No one has ever denied the relevance of Camus to existentialism.

No, I don't think it is so ridiculous, but it has something to do with a writer's denying his implication into literary or philosophical fads of the times.

Could one simply avoid them or do they, even unconsciously, pervade the fabric of one's texts and ideas ?

And it has, I think, mostly to do with intertextuality, meaning that all texts are re-using, consciously or not, others that were written before.

[fiveyearwinter]

I find that a ridiculous question. You could've asked a hundred excellent questions regarding this text, and yet you choose one which is irrelevant. Be ashamed.


harsh.

[Unregistered]

Albert Camus once said "No, I'm not an existentialiste." L'Etranger therefore is not an existentialist novel. Discuss


Sorry to ask an arbitrary question, but when did Camus say that he was not an existentialist? Was it before, during, or after he wrote L'Estranger? You see that it would have a bearing? In any event, there are grounds for evaluating whether or not any peice of literature could be labelled as being an Existentialist one - since the Being of being and the existence/emergence of existence has as a major characteristic the tendency to reveal and then retreat from the emergence of its being. In relation to the concept of Being, he may well have been playing (I hear that he was a playful type). It may be that his "Being as an Existentialist", or his "Dasein" as Heidegger would call it (Heidegger is lightening by the way), was not illuminating or emerging as the Beingness of being at that particular time...

sis

[Morty]

Please remember to be respectful of what others have to say, and the questions which they ask.
I'm being honest. Should I really compromise my honest oppinion in order to please someone whom I don't know? I don't think so. Besides, the level of disrespect I allegedly expressed was quite limited. Let's lighten up, and not take ourselves too seriously, ok?

[Ygraine]

True, it might not be the best question, but I'm not approaching this novel from a literary or deeply philosophical point of view. I'm looking for something which I can write 1,500 words on in a language of which my grasp is tenuous at best and still enjoy looking at. As far as I'm concerned, this fits the bill quite nicely. I didn't see the point in asking a more interesting question which I wouldn't be able to answer or to answer with a good grade

[oceanflower]

I'm being honest. Should I really compromise my honest oppinion in order to please someone whom I don't know? I don't think so. Besides, the level of disrespect I allegedly expressed was quite limited. Let's lighten up, and not take ourselves too seriously, ok?

Telling someone that their question is ridiculous is rude, Morty. You can express your opinion and still practice good manners, can't you?

[Scheherazade]

OK, going back to the original intend of the thread... As far as I am aware, Camus was happy with being an existentialist initially when he wrote 'The Outsider'. However, later on he realised that one could not live life in detachment. Hence, he wrote 'The Plague', which, in my very humble opinion, is a much better book than 'The Outsider'.

*drops her two cents and leaves*

[Morty]

Telling someone that their question is ridiculous is rude, Morty. You can express your opinion and still practice good manners, can't you?
You think it is rude, honestly I don't. Please refrain from questioning my manners, thank you very much. I do not wish to compromise my rightful opinion due to laws of correctness that are not in accordance with reality and of which I do not believe in.

[pinnerchoked]

You think it is rude, honestly I don't. Please refrain from questioning my manners, thank you very much. I do not wish to compromise my rightful opinion due to laws of correctness that are not in accordance with reality and of which I do not believe in.
Morty, let's try to keep this on topic, some people agree with you, some don't, and sometimes there is not enough quality communication/understanding between parties... so back to the topic:


"Was it wrong, or immoral, of Mersault not to cry at his mothers funeral?"
I always thought that could be an interesting question to answer. I think this question would have been excellent, and it was one of the most poignant parts of the book. To me, the prospect of it being "wrong" is what is most frightening about the situation. I believe that no one on the earth has the right to conclude how two members of a nuclear family should react to the passing of one, except those two members themselves.


To appreciate 'The Stranger' and Camus best, I think one needs to read 'The Plague' as well. Camus changed his views and philosophies after writing 'The Stranger'.
I've never read any other Camus novels, and the Stranger is one of the top 5 books I've ever read in my life, as far as relevance is concerned, due to it being an excellent representation of one is persecuted for personal beliefs that, sometimes, do not affect another human being at all. I would also go so far as to say that all the characters in the novel besides The Stranger himself, are more existentialist than he is. They immediately impose their beliefs of what is happening around them, and in The Stranger's head. Sad really.
P.S. please be nice, I haven't read the book in a while... so I hope I'm not misremembering, but the previous discussion did stimulate my memory a little bit.
thanks,
o

[oceanflower]

You think it is rude, honestly I don't. Please refrain from questioning my manners, thank you very much. I do not wish to compromise my rightful opinion due to laws of correctness that are not in accordance with reality and of which I do not believe in.

You have every right to your opinion, Morty, but here at the Lit. Forums you don't have the right to insult other people's opinions while expounding your own. As an administrator here I will continue to admonish any rude comments, by you or anyone, which insult other people's opinions. That's my final word on this topic. So let's get back ON TOPIC, which is THE STRANGER by Albert Camus.

[Ygraine]

The other girl in my French class (yes, there are only two of us, it's *that* popular) is looking at something to do with whether Meursault was judged fairly or not, and I know she'd appreciate any thoughts on that.

I've already reached my conclusion regarding my own question: as the text does demonstrate existentialist philosophy and is often interpreted in such a way it doesn't matter whether Camus considered himself an existentialist or not. As long as the reader chooses to read the novel in this way, as many do, it can be considered to be in some part an existentialist text. Now all I have to do is write the thing

[Morty]

You have every right to your opinion, Morty, but here at the Lit. Forums you don't have the right to insult other people's opinions while expounding your own. As an administrator here I will continue to admonish any rude comments, by you or anyone, which insult other people's opinions. That's my final word on this topic. So let's get back ON TOPIC, which is THE STRANGER by Albert Camus.
Fine. But since you have such strict policies here, maybe you could do us all a favour by explaining what a "rude" or "insulting" comment is. If my comment is considered rude or insulting, I'm not sure I even wish to post here anymore. I don't feel comfortable under censorship or restriction.

Carry on.

[Morty]

due to it being an excellent representation of one is persecuted for personal beliefs that, sometimes, do not affect another human being at all.
I don't know how important it is, to the novel or Camus, that they disagreed with Meursault's "personal beliefs". I think that the trial help to create the theme of absurdity, as there was no solid reasoning behind the murder, and to emphasize the stand Camus takes against society and the norms of it (i.e. it is wrong not to cry at your mothers funeral).

[oceanflower]

Fine. But since you have such strict policies here, maybe you could do us all a favour by explaining what a "rude" or "insulting" comment is. If my comment is considered rude or insulting, I'm not sure I even wish to post here anymore. I don't feel comfortable under censorship or restriction.

Carry on.

For the sake of anyone else who wants to know what a rude comment is, I will answer your question. Morty, you called Ygraine's question "ridiculous." That is rude.

At the Lit. Forums we ask that everyone use ordinary, everyday good manners when engaging in discussions on any topic, however heated it may get. One need not be rude when disagreeing with someone. We also discourage excessive profanity or vulgarity. These rules are not strict; they are very simple and straightforward, and happily the majority of members here abide by them, and I think that's what makes this a friendly and comfortable place to visit.

Morty, I do not want to continue a personal discusion with you in this thread, so I ask that any further concerns you have be directed to me via pm.

Now please....THE STRANGER: Discuss! :)

[teesrabanda]

Can somebody help me find a free e-text for 'Stranger'? :?:

[lucyjad]

I loved this book. I felt that their judgments of Mersault (sp?) were unjust as his personal reaction to his mothers death etc had no bearing upon his intention to murder. I couldn't sleep for days after reading this as my mind was caught up with the question of why people do cry/ feel sad when somebody dies: is it because they miss that person in which case was it wrong for Mersault not to think of himself, or because society dictates that we must feel sad, in which case why should he abide by that? etc etc.
I feel that this is a wonderfully thought probovking work of genious, similar to The Trial and Crime and Punishment.

[ellis]

It is a short one. The Stranger by Albert Camus.

I really liked it, up until the ending. The last chapter was a real turn off for me. I didn't like how the main character went from a thoughtless and emotionless person to some well thoughtout and great guy in the last chapter.

The Guest was a much better story and really made posed more questions about philosophy and life IMO.

[oceanflower]

Hi Ellis..good to see you! :)

[ellis]

Hi Ellis..good to see you! :)

Thanks... I was gone for a while there. I actually lost the URL to this site and couldn't find it on google.

The new layout to the site looks great.

[Star_Anise]

Welcome to our Camus thread, ellis. I read it so long ago I'm afraid I can't really add anything, but it makes me think I need to reread it at some point.

[Dormouse Rabble]

The Guest was a much better story and really made posed more questions about philosophy and life IMO.

While I love The Stranger, the significance in any other Camus work I've read is lost on me (The Fall, The Guest, and the first third or so of The Plague). I'm beginning to fear I'm dense.

I do hold strongly in the opinion that, out of these, The Stranger is the most engaging.

[frolic]

I perceived Camus' denial of being an exintentialist as his denial of a path to follow or the purveyor of a philosophy. He did not want his books and ideas to be criticized for their lack of the proper existentialist concepts. Nor did he want to have his future to be a model of "the exisistentialist".

[KneD]

I perceived Camus' denial of being an exintentialist as his denial of a path to follow or the purveyor of a philosophy. He did not want his books and ideas to be criticized for their lack of the proper existentialist concepts. Nor did he want to have his future to be a model of "the exisistentialist".

You are certainly right about that. I am afraid on the other hand that he didn't really succeed in his goal. Many see him as an existentialist, or at least a (political) philosopher. He himself wanted to be a novelist, I believe.

Which is why it is striking that you claim to be on Camus' side when it comes to politics :D (in your introduce-yourself thread)

[Splendour]

I went through the French original in the summer, in order to brush up my French for this term's course. His language is absolutely beautiful, simple, yet beautiful. I mean, existentialist works have very dry languages (the ones I've gone through, Sartre's Huis Clos (read in French), Stoppard's Ros & Gil are dead, Beckette's Waiting for Gadot), with a single exception of Cherry Orchard by Chekov (I doubt he will call himself an existentialist though, but that play has some element in it), L'Etranger has the most exquisite descriptions. I would say, the French version reads (stylistically, in terms of language) like Joyce's Dubliner.

The language sound, restrained, yet the writer could not help but to give us as readers the most delicate images. The Sun, the Sea, or even the mere road in the beginning, they all look so beautiful. If I was just to read those passages I would almost judge him a Romanticist. But it's one of a masterly work where the modern direct tone is blended with the lyrical touch of a painter.

Sorry I went on with a lot of pointless praise, I simply felt that way. But I know my French is not good enough to appreciate the true beauty of his language...*sigh*...

French is really a flamboyant language by the way....

[frolic]

You are certainly right about that. I am afraid on the other hand that he didn't really succeed in his goal. Many see him as an existentialist, or at least a (political) philosopher. He himself wanted to be a novelist, I believe.

Which is why it is striking that you claim to be on Camus' side when it comes to politics :D (in your introduce-yourself thread)

Striking? It was a statement made half-jokingly.