Great Expectations

[creme_ala_creme78]

we are currently reading this in my English I Honors class, and i wanted to know what yall thought.....

so far, okay, not great but by far one of the best we've read in that class this year (we've read Animal Farm, Midsummer Nights Dream, Raisin in the Sun, Tom Sawyer, and one other, but i cant remember the name)

[creme_ala_creme78]

ok, no1 has replied and ive had this one up for a bit (or maybe it just seems like it) so am i right in assuming yall havent read this??

[incka]

Haven't read it, but I am sure some of our members have.

[mazarane]

hope the clowns didn't eat you..... :wink:

I read at least part of it in English; I think we read the whole thing. I remember it as a decent book but not one that greatly appealed to me. To be honest I don't remember having greatly enjoyed anything we read at school (A Midsummer Night's Dream, TO KIll a Mockingbird, THe Tempest, Macbeth....) as really grabbing me.

Do you think the academic setting has something to do with it?

[incka]

I think it would have, books at school only seem interesting when the teachers get you to play an active role or pretend to be Macbath and pretend to repitedly stab Duncan...

[creme_ala_creme78]

to kill a mockingbird was the one i couldnt think of....

maybe the setting is the problem, even tho its all hw, but who knows....

no, unfortunately the clowns didnt eat me....

[Freaky Ed]

I had great expectations for that book, but the plot was a bit bland for my liking.

[mazarane]

to kill a mockingbird was the one i couldnt think of....


so now of 5 books we've each quoted three are the same. You live in Texas, USA, and I went to school in Kent, England. Slightly surprising?

[creme_ala_creme78]

just a bit, lol, yeah, it is

[Anonymous]

Hello! This is the 1st time i visit this page.
I read the book a couple of years ago and i also found it dissapointig as i expected more from Dickens having read "Oliver Twist" and partialy "Our mutual friend".
On top of that, the ending is inconclusive! Who likes happy endings we'll probably choose to assume that Pip and Stella end together but it can be interpreted either way which is a little bit frustrating. One thing i'm almost sure is that i won´t read it twice.

[starrynights48]

Great Expectations is a good book; however, a lot of people don't really appreciate it until they've read it at least a second time.

[Leamas]

think of the book as a study of the passing of time, and some people's inability to move on. Miss Havisham imprisons herself with a bad memory and then uses Stella to 'take vengenace' on the male sex through her disdainful treatment of Pip.

it is also about Pip's relationship with both Joe Gargery, and with Magwitch and how both men fall short of Pip's 'expectations' - though he realises that their love for him is ultimately more valuable than any inherited fortune. remember, he squanders money - and if it weren't for Jaggers he would've lost everything. he squanders money because he hasn't any idea or appreciation from where it comes. it is what he must learn.

Magwitch teaches Pip the lesson of acceptance, Joe the lesson of family. and Stella, the lesson of patience.

it's a great book, though not an easy read.

[tames]

I have read on other forums that many people don't enjoy the classics when they are young. It gets better in college, and as you get older. I have noticed since I am now "old" that I enjoy them much more. Also, I don't HAVE to read something if I don't want to. That makes it my choice, and you attack a book with a different attitude.

[Anonymous]

True enough...

Nothing was very interesting in school, because you're all being forced to do it. At the time, we all sat there fighting to keep our eyes from daydreaming out the windows. There were hundreds of better things to be doing with the time than sitting in class falling asleep.

...Now, we all grow older, sometimes even mature a little and our interests change. Now the alternative is to pay money to learn what you WANT to learn (hopefully that's why someone'd go into post secondary)... Very different!

But, if kids weren't forced to learn, they'd probably just run around playing games/getting drunk/growing stupid in front of the TV/whatever... Might as well sit 'em all down.

Personally, I didn't care 'bout anything in school after pressure for good grades wore off... Right up until the very end of school did I get an appreciation for some of the things they threw at us.

Unfortunately, only one piece I read from highschool sticks out in my mind; Death of a Salesman by Miller... Very moving play.

...

Never read any Dickens yet, I think I'll hit this one right away and see how it goes.

[willj56]

I read it about two years ago, and have mixed feelings towards it. At times i felt it was overly-meandering, but certain passages really struck a chord - the way they were written, what they were talking about...very impressive stuff.

I also really liked the way Pip changes subtly throughout the book - something most people i have spoken to didn't really notice when they read it.

[Simmy]

Dickens' novels... hmm... I can take them or leave them. I loved Oliver Twist, but Great Expectations didn't appeal to me. I'm not sure why. The characters were interesting, but the overall plot was too dreary for my liking. I tend to prefer more action.

[oceanflower]

It's been a long time since I Grat Expectations, but I do remember that I wasn't as involved with the characters as I was with the characters in Oliver Twist. I think that one of Dickens' finest works is probably his shortest: A Christmas Carol.

[richardpierson]

heathens! Great Expectations is one of the finest novels ever written. Old Joe and his simple and honest relationship: 'What larks!"
Pip turns into a bit of a wanker only to find out that old Joe was right and that sincerity is more important that posturing. to update the theme into todays idiom, the basic point is that people should 'keep it real' and use their intellectual postering not to fulfill ego but to help understanding and love.

Add to this strong characters like the mad old bitch in the wedding dress and a young woman basically produced to break hearts, and you've got yourself a novel that most should in some way relate to.

Sorry. This is a bit of a rant- but i urge you all to read it again with a sense of humour. There are so many little jokes and wordplays and great symbolism.

[oceanflower]

heathens! Great Expectations is one of the finest novels ever written. Old Joe and his simple and honest relationship: 'What larks!"
Pip turns into a bit of a wanker only to find out that old Joe was right and that sincerity is more important that posturing. to update the theme into todays idiom, the basic point is that people should 'keep it real' and use their intellectual postering not to fulfill ego but to help understanding and love.

Add to this strong characters like the mad old bitch in the wedding dress and a young woman basically produced to break hearts, and you've got yourself a novel that most should in some way relate to.

Sorry. This is a bit of a rant- but i urge you all to read it again with a sense of humour. There are so many little jokes and wordplays and great symbolism.

You've actually made me willing to re-read the book. You make it sound so much better than I remember it. :)

[NaderiaBonita]

This was one of the last books I've bought, and I'm slightly surprised at those who say it is boring! I haven't gotten to reading it yet (and that fact is making me kind of mad, lol) but I think I will love it! For someone who gobbled up Madame Bovary, which pretty much every person I've talked to has hated, I suppose Great Expectations will suffice. 8)

On another note...

Unfortunately, only one piece I read from highschool sticks out in my mind; Death of a Salesman by Miller... Very moving play.
Pardon me, but I did not like this play at all! (Sorry, if you find this a bit hypocritical, but just an opinion! lol) Ugh! I liked the message and themes I suppose, but *hated* the characters. And I mean *hated* them. (:roll:) The wife (I think her name was Linda...?) was sooooo annoying. I just wanted to beat her over the head! And the two boys? All I remember were that their names were stupid (haha) and I didn't like them. Even the main character drove me nuts!

Err, anyway. Sorry to sabatoge the Great Expectations thread!

[oceanflower]

This was one of the last books I've bought, and I'm slightly surprised at those who say it is boring! I haven't gotten to reading it yet (and that fact is making me kind of mad, lol) but I think I will love it! For someone who gobbled up Madame Bovary, which pretty much every person I've talked to has hated, !

I thought Madame Bovary was an excellent book. :)

[NaderiaBonita]

I thought Madame Bovary was an excellent book. :)
Yeah! someone else who liked Madame Bovary! I love that book! Everyone I talked to thought it was really boring and hated the ending. Well, the ending was kind of the whole point, and it was not in the least boring! lol. Anyway, perhaps I enjoyed it so much because I *didn't* read it for school... hmmm....

[alisa_2002000]

i couldn't get through this book it was one of those i had to read over and over to even remotley understand the plot, i was that bored.

[Zeke Steiner]

This may be my favorite novel of his - A crown jewel.

[Silverfalcon]

I didn't find thread about this book so I guess it's okay to post (I use search button)?

Anyway, I'm going to start reading Great Expectation by Charles Dickens. But this is my first attempt to read this book so when I get stuck or have question, I'll ask here. Not many people in my school read this so yup, thanks! :p

[ArthurDent]

Sorry that I'm not exactly on topic, but I just wanted to say that one of the greatest characteristics of this forum is, that the members do not jump at newbies :)

I mean, on other forums, I would post something and get a reply like:

"USE THE SEARCH OPTION A^% H*&E!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: "

:)

so don't feel bad. The worse that can happen is that this thread already exists and someone would tell you that. Nicely though ;)

[oceanflower]

I've merged Silverfalcon's thread with a rather old, but pre-existing one. :)

[Dahlia]

I struggle with a lot of Dickens. I loved Hard Times and I also loved Great Expectations. The latter was very good because of the characters and the symbolism and hidden meanings. It was quite bleak yet that's what I liked about it. I love the ambigous ending too, everyone hopes Estella and Pip will get together but Estella is incapable of love and can only ever admit to wanting to be 'good friends' with Pip. Heartbreaking.

[Winifred]

On our recent trip to Virginia for Thanksgiving, we listened to Great Expectations by Charles Dickens, unfortunately abridged,but fortunately dramatized very well. Great listen!

This novel is just screaming to be made into a Bollywood production!! The romance is perfect: poor Pip, raised "by the hand" by his strict sister, awed by Miss Haversham's rich home; Stella cold until thawed by misfortune of marrying her snide husband, the magical granting of $$$ and position to Pip; the Pocket family (think: Sound of Music stepladder children); Wemmick's "castle" where Aged Parent holds sway; the song and dance possibilities of the Newgate Prison and the streets of London; the subplot involving Biddy and Joe Gargery; together with the touching scenes where Pip is embarrassed by his uncle's humble ways. The melodrama! The musical possiblilites! The colorful characters! The call to moral behavior!

Does anyone know if this book has already been adopted by Bollywood?

[Heather H]

I never read this when I was in school, so I decided that now was as good a time as any. It was an easy read, and I finished it in three days. (I'm a fast reader.)

WARNING: Potential spoilers below.

I loved it. The characters are fascinating, and many are quite bizarre while still believable. The morality expressed in the book is rather complex (and therefore realistic), and the characters are definitely not one-dimensional in this regard. Ambiguous endings do not bother me; I like a book that gives me plenty to think about after I have reached the end. This ending makes a lot of sense; Estella has obviously learned from her disastrous marriage to the jerk Drummle, but is she still incapable of love? It is a question that should, perhaps, remain open to some degree. (Also, thanks to Henry James, I am quite accustomed to books with ambiguous endings.)

I wonder what I would have made of this book had I read it while in high school or earlier; it seems like this book would be more meaningful to someone who is a bit older and has been jerked about by life. I can see elements of my own personality in some of the characters. The class consciousness that Pip developed while he was becoming a "gentleman" is something that, for better or worse, I tend to share. There is a bit of the madness and reclusiveness of Miss Havisham in me (albeit for different reasons). And, like Estella, I do not readily fall in love and have cruelly brushed off potential suitors. (However, I NEVER would have married the idiot Drummle!) A book like this makes one think of ones own life situation, personality, and character flaws.

To those who read it in high school and didn't get a great deal out of it, try reading it when you are older and have experienced more of life's ups and downs. You might get more out of it then.

Heather

[padmar]

Great expectations is a favorite Dickens story of mine. Pips first visit to Miss Havisham and the request to play is something that I relate as a part of fiction that forever sticks in the mind. Dickens also reveals a side many of his readers understand, that is his belief in the supernatural. When Pip is in the garden of Miss Havishams house I think on the second visit, he see’s an apparition but Dickens goes no further in explaining other than he see’s a figure hanging. And then there is the London of Great Expectations and the reality of the criminal justice system of the time. And the memorable Wemmick and the Aged. All in all an enjoyable story that raised a lot of issues around the criminal justice system of the time. Magwich and Pip make a fine pair as do Estelle and Miss Havisham.

[ugudka]

This novel is just screaming to be made into a Bollywood production!!

Sorry but I hope it isn't. I saw the way that Bollywood absolutely massacred Pride and Prejudice. I would hate to see that happen to another book that I love.

[ugudka]

Hello! This is the 1st time i visit this page.
On top of that, the ending is inconclusive! Who likes happy endings we'll probably choose to assume that Pip and Stella end together but it can be interpreted either way which is a little bit frustrating.

Its true that the ending of Great Expectations is ambiguous and mystic. But i think that you need to shine a little contextual light on it to appreciate it.

Dickens originally wrote a different ending for it. In which Pip adopts little Pip from Joe and Biddy and raises him as a gentleman in London. He meets Estella one day, who is now (happily) married to a middle class doctor after the death of Drummle. They shake hands, put the past behind them and go their separate ways.

Dickens wrote the original ending when he had just separated from his mistress, and his own romantic problems are reflected in the intended absence of a happy ending. However he change the ending at the request of an author friend (can't remember who) and this is the ending most modern versions use. (One can also see that even in the revised edition there lingers a reluctance to admit outright a happily-ever-after for Pip and Estella).

I think that in any case the ending is irrelevant. Though love as a theme runs throughout the book it is hardly the dominant theme. The importance is the growth of Pip as a person, his coming to terms with himself and the world around him. His development into a true gentleman, not on the outside, but on the inside. So whether he ends up with Estella or not is irrelevant as he has managed to find a humble and happy ending for himself either way. And finding happiness within, as opposed to relying on happiness from external sources, is really the best ending that anybody could ever hope for.

[margaine]

Sorry but I hope it isn't. I saw the way that Bollywood absolutely massacred Pride and Prejudice. I would hate to see that happen to another book that I love.

Are you referring to Bride and Prejudice? Or something else?

[markcool]

Hi,


Great Expectations is a good book. But I was quite disappointed when i read it. To many people it might seem a little frustrating. It does not have a happy end.


Marc Cool

[ugudka]

One major problem that people seem to have with Great Expectations is the fact that most people seem to think that it did not have a happy ending. I completely disagree and think we really need to look at this with a different perspective than a regular love story.

The fact is that at the end of the day, while it is one of the central theme's of the book, love isn't the main theme in Great Expectations. Estella is by and large, a secondary character. Even though she is very important to Pip, being really the trigger to his desire for education and improvement, she doesn't really have much 'screen time' at all. She's absent for about half the novel at least. So the book cannot be based on its romantic plot alone because at the end of the day, it is a story about a Pip, not a story about Pip and Estella. The book is meant to be about Pip's growth as a person, his difficult journey from boyhood to manhood. The story is about him, and therefore the ending, in turn, is a happy one if it shows us that Pip has matured into the best person that he can be. Therefore, I think that the ending is actually a happy one.

I think Dickens wanted to show the trials of life for an underprivileged ambitious boy (hence, semi-autobiographical). But for I think the first time, he had a main character whose character was quite flawed, and whose obstacles in life were of his own making (snobbery, pride etc) rather than unfairly imposed on him by the big bad world. The fact that Pip grows up into a strong, independent, generous, hardworking man is definitely a happy ending. He manages to become a good human being, which is what the whole book was about, and the love story was just a sub-plot. So given that the main objective of the book was about his development into a worth adult, I think the fact that he becomes the wonderful person he is at the end of the book, it is definitely a happy ending.

The ending may not be a typical Jane Austen-esque happy one. But in its own way it is happy as Pip achieves what he sets out to do - he becomes a true gentlemen, on the outside and on the inside too. He becomes somebody that Joe and Biddy and most importantly Estella can respect and someone who is capable of finding his own happiness. I think Dickens was trying to provide a new type of happy ending here, where happiness is not determined by external circumstances all falling into place to let you live happily ever after. He's a lot more realistic, and shows the reality that the world is not going to hand you everything on a silver platter, but if you have the right character and attitude, you'll make you're won happy ending. Not all happy endings have to be one where the boy and girl ride off into the sunset together. Its not a fairytale ending, for sure, but it is a happy one. or at least I choose to think so. :)

[ugudka]

Are you referring to Bride and Prejudice? Or something else?


Yep that's the one. I was horrified when I watched it. It made the story seem so shallow and cheesy, like a common love story when I think that there is so much more to it. I really didn't like it.

[Morning Glory]

After Oliver Twist and The Old Curiosity Shop I was convinced that Dickens' books would always make me weep or wander moodily for a long time, or impress me greatly in some other way, but The Great Expectations failed to do that. I read the book about a year ago, I suppose, but I don't even remember what was the main idea of it. I just didn't get the message - the characters seemed to be made of chipboard, the plot was uninteresting... It was a bore.