Places You Would Not Visit

[incka]

List the places you would be to scared to visit at the moment.

Here are mine:

Iraq
Mainland Spain
Northern Pakistan
Iran


And that's it. I would even visit afganistan.

[aquila]

Well ... let's see ...

Sean's bedroom (dangerously contaminated!)
Murmurs.com (oppressive admin)
Oval Office (mad man's workspace)

[Anonymous]

I will visit anywhere with this to guard me :D

http://tony.murmurs.com/talk/attachment.php?s=&attachmentid=39366

[mazarane]

that was me by the way (doh!). I still have the battle potato cannon in reserve.

[aquila]

that was me by the way (doh!). I still have the battle potato cannon in reserve.

So I see :P

Ah, yes the infamous battle potato :D

[mishka]

On my`I-have-to-do-so-much-research-before-I-will-even-consider-it list:
Iraq
Iran
Egypt
Turkey

On my I-only-have-to-do-three-month-of-much-research-before-I-will-consider-it list:
Haiti
South Africa

[incka]

I think most of Haiti's people's religion is voodooism. I found the quite interesting and remembered it from when I was browsing through a world fact book on countries...

[mishka]

Yes the little I know about Haiti's religion agrees with that, but it is a mix of traditional (voodoo etc) and colonial (Christianity)--what a mix!

The political and social aspects are of most concern for me with the various ongoing rebellions and riots etc. Makes me sad to think about what it might be like to live there---also makes me very cautious about becoming someone who might live there!

[3]

Well ... let's see ...
Murmurs.com (oppressive admin)


then don't visit it,stay away

[aquila]

Well ... let's see ...
Murmurs.com (oppressive admin)


then don't visit it,stay away

I'm still in ... Ethan's okay :)

What's wrong with Turkey? The terrorists come from Morocco!

[incka]

The British embasy was blown up there. I would still go.

[mishka]

nothing wrong with Turkey--just the level of civil unrest etc. would require research on my part. For my own comfort level, I would study history, current situation, culture, laws etc. in a lot more detail than I would dedicate to say England.

[aquila]

just the level of civil unrest

Civil unrest? :shock: You sound like a Vulcan. But than in a highly illogical state.

[mishka]

just the level of civil unrest

Civil unrest? :shock: You sound like a Vulcan. But than in a highly illogical state.
I think I am being most logical!! :P

[aquila]

I think I am being most logical!!

No, you're not. You act like you know all the facts - you keep making false assumptions based on nothing bu hear-say and US propaganda.

"It's a Free World, Baby ..."

[incka]

"...And you gave too much away..."

[mishka]

I think I am being most logical!!

No, you're not. You act like you know all the facts - you keep making false assumptions based on nothing bu hear-say and US propaganda.

"It's a Free World, Baby ..."

Werner,

You have replied in an antagonistic manner to several of my posts now without attempting to open a dialogue. I will take this as meaning you have a need to vent. This is a heads up that I will no longer respond to any posts that you make.

mishka

[aquila]

This is a heads up that I will no longer respond to any posts that you make.

Great :D That also means I don't have to read your post any more! :P

[creme_ala_creme78]

i wouldnt leave the 'safety' of the usa right now because we are so hated b the rest of the world (tho i cant really blame them, and i wish i was over there hating americans instead of over here wishing i was over there hating us.....pathetic to feel so little nationalism, isnt it?)

[mishka]

i wouldnt leave the 'safety' of the usa right now because we are so hated b the rest of the world (tho i cant really blame them, and i wish i was over there hating americans instead of over here wishing i was over there hating us.....pathetic to feel so little nationalism, isnt it?)

I just finished reading Pattern Recognition, Bill Gibson's latest set just after 9/11. At one point the protagonist is on route somewhere and her companion asks her nationality. She tells him she's American and he replies "I think it must be difficult to be an American these days."

One of my best friends lives in the states and after 9/11 she found it very difficult to speak with her family & friends in Canada because of the strong reactions to the event.

What is my point here---just rambling a bit because it is so late but mostly wanting to empathize with you.

As for nationalism, I read a great article recently that critiqued globalization and the appropriateness of nationalism in todays world. ("Globalization, Inequality, HIV/AIDS and the Intimacies of Self" by Barnett and Whiteside. Appears in _AIDS in the Twenty-First Century: Disease and Globalisation_)

The article highlighted 9/11 as a prime example of the futility of applying nationalism to combat terrorism. The terrorists who were involved in 9/11 were not a nation and so could not be confronted in that traditional manner.

I love Canada. I would fight to protect the rights and freedoms I am privileged to enjoy and exercise as one of her citizens. Yet...... truly the world is becoming a global village more and more each day.

Where does the line get drawn between protecting everyones rights, sharing the benefits of freedoms, and yet respecting individual cultures (ie no colonialism).

Complex issues all around. How do you guys draw that line? Thoughts?

[incka]

I feel loving your country is a bad idea. Loving your government when it is good and liberal is fine, just if they do something wrong do not be affraid to critise.

Globalisation can be good or bad, depending on how we go about it.

It can stop hunger and poverty and bring equal oppertunity to all if we do it right, yet if we do it wrong it will mean expliotation of thousands and dictatorship...

We must work to make the world democratic with equal oppertunity to all.

Invaiding Iraq may have killed thousands yet it will bring democracy to the country. I would sacrifice my life to bring democracy to a country I lived in that was not democratic.

[creme_ala_creme78]

it will bring democracy to that part of theworld, but i cant help but feel like we are forcing on our beliefs to them....especially since its against our laws to force OUR citizens to do anything that offends their religion, isnt that what we are doin to the muslims?

[incka]

Muslims have no problem with democracy. Some of them do have problems with it, but some americans would rather your country be a dictatorship.

You should in no way force religion onto them and if you do that, you are encouraging the gihad.

[aquila]

Gihad? Is that different than Jihad? :P

I wouldn't visit Israel - their leader's just like the Palestinian users he has killed!

[creme_ala_creme78]

well, yes, every1 will hav a problem with something, but we are enforcing our views over there, not neccessarily our religions, and it conflicts with their religion, and that bothers me that we cant even say a prayer at school in case we offend some1, but we are enforcing laws in iraq that are against the muslim religion....its just hypocritical to me....

[incka]

I'm glad you are not allowed to pray in schools. Prayer is biased towards a certain religion, leaving others out. So is all your laws. Get them changed.

The laws they are enforcing are womans rights laws, so females can show their face in public, etc. Muslims generally don't have too much of a problem with this, even if some do.

[mishka]

well, yes, every1 will hav a problem with something, but we are enforcing our views over there, not neccessarily our religions, and it conflicts with their religion, and that bothers me that we cant even say a prayer at school in case we offend some1, but we are enforcing laws in iraq that are against the muslim religion....its just hypocritical to me....

I agree! The whole separate of Church and state stance in the US is taken so strictly at home but it is one of the drivers in the war with Iraq. I do not support what Hussein did in his country. However, this action was not sanctioned by the United Nations. The US went in on their judgment. That is no different to me than the IRA bombing British properties in Belfast, becuase in the IRAs judgment the British should not be there with their Protestant religion.

George Bush's father gave Saddam Hussein the very weapons that George W. Bush claimed to be going after. Weapons that were nowhere to be found as it turns out.

If the United States is in fact attempting to bring democracy to the world by force, that is an interesting agenda---and perhaps even a worthy one, if the administration would admit that that is their goal and no one can stop them from pursuing it.

I am concerned more about what will happen in Iraq in 1,2,3,5 years when the media and public are no longer focussed on it and the American administration withdraws all support. Hundreds of years of culture and tradition cannot be overdone in a few years of externally introduced change.

[aquila]

If the United States is in fact attempting to bring democracy to the world by force, that is an interesting agenda---and perhaps even a worthy one, if the administration would admit that that is their goal and no one can stop them from pursuing it.

It would still be a non worthy goal. Who says the whole world wants democracy? You'd still be pushing your values up as the best!

Oh, people like Bin Laden and others like him can stop them. In fact he's shown it's quite easy to stay out of reach. The US could never get democracy in a country like China by force. Think of 1 million chinese Bin Ladens at least. I love those Chinese kicking US arse! :)

[creme_ala_creme78]

yeah, well, even if i disagree w/ what we are doing, i cant bring myself to enjoy that mental picture....

and not allowing us to pray in school is oppression, think about it, if a muslim came to school in america, they wouldnt be able to do there payers they do five times a day....im not talking about forcing us to pray, im talking about not allowing us free expression of our religion!

[incka]

I am with France on the issue of religion in schools. It should COMPLETLY be banned. If you went to a school and you were the only, lets say, Budhist, and everyone was, lets say, Jewish, and they were practising their faith while there or even showing objects you would feel opressed.

Schools & other state authories should not allow religion. I am sorry if my views are strong, but they are my views and I will not change them. I also feel the same about trademarks. 'Nike' and 'Coke' have no place in public buildings. Commercialism and Religion have no place within a modern state's affairs. The state should certainly allow them, and in no way oppress them, but it should keep itself clean of them.

This really is turning into a political forum isn't it... I think I best make a political forum soon... I've got a good name for it to, taken from a R.E.M. song.

[aquila]

and not allowing us to pray in school is oppression

No, that's making all students equal. Religion has no place in schools. Schools should be the place where you learn to respect someone by the way the person is. Religion would only cloud the image!

Just look at what religion has brought us: 2000 years of fanatics killing eachother. Setting people up in schools would be even worse.

I think what they did in France was a good thing. School is a place of science and education, not a place of religion and superstition!

[incka]

Despite my tolerence towards religion I agree with what Werner said. I do not believe any religion, and I feel despite the good teachings of them, they are, how can I put this, fluad in their beliefs...

I do not want to offend anyone, but on scientific principals religions such as RAEL are far more realistic than ones who believe in gods.

Again these are only my views, I do not wish to offend anyone.

[creme_ala_creme78]

dont worry, i dont think u did offend anyone...

the only problem i have is if i want to pray i should at least, even if i have to leave the room, be allowed to.

i agree w/ your views on trademarks in public places btw.

[Freaky Ed]

I strongly agree with both Werner and Incka and I wouldn't mind offending anyone that thought otherwise! :twisted:

[creme_ala_creme78]

i think we're pretty far off topic....can we just agree to disagree on this one?





i still wouldnt leave the usa till i turn eighteen (then i can leave w/out some1 on my tail the whole time) i put a lot of stock on international relations, they are very high on my list of should-be priorities w/ the us gov't, but since most of the world hates us......

[incka]

You probably would be safe in Britain or France or Canada...

[creme_ala_creme78]

possibly....except for France, my cousins went there for two months and they said that most of them hate americans.....cant really blame them tho...

[incka]

They may hate Americans, but the French would never harm you...

[creme_ala_creme78]

i dont know all that much about the french except that they hate us, they have the eiffel tower, and the desserts rock.....ive never been out of the country except to a 5 day trip i took with my parents to mexico for a cousin's wedding when i was 5.....it took 2 days to drive down there and 2 days to drive back.....

[Freaky Ed]

I would not visit

Iraq,
Any areas of land where extreme religious groups reside,
Ossett School
and Heaven (too boring up there!)

[incka]

Stop trying to insult people Edward.

And you are in Ossett School at the moment, so arn't you being a little bit hypocritical?

[creme_ala_creme78]

Osset School (if Ed is there) is another place to add to my list....

[incka]

It's actually one of the best public schools in the country, you just have to avoid Eddy :P

[debbie_harry]

i'm gonna go out of limb here and say COUGH

[incka]

:?:

[debbie_harry]

don't hide behind those yellow rings

[incka]

They all called smilies :P

[debbie_harry]

schmile

[creme_ala_creme78]

yeah, i go to one of the worst public schools in my country so that could be a nice change of scenery.....unless i ran into eddie

[mazarane]

when you say public school, does that mean funded by the state?

In England we have the bizarre situation that a private school is the same as a public school, and both of them are funded mostly by fees paid by the parents. State schools are funded by taxpayers.

[incka]

State school I meant...


Poor Jacklyn :cry:

[creme_ala_creme78]

the only private school we have in our town only goes through the 5th grade....it's also a catholic school (and im not catholic so i didnt go there...)

no joke poor me!

lol, wow, i sounded pathetic and conceited at the same time!

[incka]

Anyone who, at any age - never mind 15, who can use pathetic and conceited in the same sentence is definatly not being conceiting... (Well, unless they, like me, are just copying the words...)

Anyway, I bet all those who attend that private school are conseited snobs who are no where near as intellectual or emotionally sophisticated as you. They are usually just unsociable entities.

It may appear that my love for you is making me biased, but I ensure you that isn't the case...

[oceanflower]

Umm...back to topic...

I would be afraid to be in:

N.E. side of Washington, D.C..
The Bronx, New York

[creme_ala_creme78]

Anyone who, at any age - never mind 15, who can use pathetic and conceited in the same sentence is definatly not being conceiting... (Well, unless they, like me, are just copying the words...)

Anyway, I bet all those who attend that private school are conseited snobs who are no where near as intellectual or emotionally sophisticated as you. They are usually just unsociable entities.

It may appear that my love for you is making me biased, but I ensure you that isn't the case...

awww...you totally just made my day w/ that!! (especially the emotionally sophisticated part cuz im really not feelin that right now...)




why would you not go to NE D.C.?

[incka]

As a pure guess I would say oceanflower wouldn't go there because of September 11th...

[creme_ala_creme78]

true, could be (is that where the pentagon is?), didnt think of that...

[oceanflower]

Anyone who, at any age - never mind 15, who can use pathetic and conceited in the same sentence is definatly not being conceiting... (Well, unless they, like me, are just copying the words...)

Anyway, I bet all those who attend that private school are conseited snobs who are no where near as intellectual or emotionally sophisticated as you. They are usually just unsociable entities.

It may appear that my love for you is making me biased, but I ensure you that isn't the case...

awww...you totally just made my day w/ that!! (especially the emotionally sophisticated part cuz im really not feelin that right now...)




why would you not go to NE D.C.?


Because I value my life. In general, Washingtomn D.C. is not a safe place to be, unless you are sightseeing around the Smithsonian or other well-known tourist attractions (and then, only during the day). In fact Washington D.C. has one of the highest rates of violent crime in the country. I do spend time in D.C....I love the museums and the historical attractions. But I know where, when, and if to go to certain parts of the city.

[creme_ala_creme78]

good point....add that to my list, but not the bronx cuz i went there last week....not a place i would like to spend any amount of time in...