The thread about Australia

[margaine]

Thought I'd start this thread, in Jez's stead (um, is that something people say?).

I suppose it's not travel for Star, but it is for the rest of us, right? Seemed to make sense for here, although it can be moved, I won't be offended. ;)

Actually, I'm curious about the presence (or lack thereof) of indigenous societies in Australia nowadays. Most of what I know is gleaned from Peter Weir films. I would know nothing about Australia if it wasn't for Peter Weir films. Haha. :p Also I saw Rabbit-Proof Fence - and that film is the extent of my knowledge about how indigenous groups were treated in the past.

I'm also curious about surfing. Okay, I don't surf, but I want to start. And where I grew up, the waves are pretty big - I'm usually afraid to go in the ocean, in fact, despite my swimming abilities. Are there hugely enormous waves in Australia? Have you ever seen them, Star?

[Jez]

Thanks for making the thread for me! :) I've got to think up some good questions (I've got a lot of questions, but I don't know how many are actually good).

[Star_Anise]

Thought I'd start this thread, in Jez's stead (um, is that something people say?).

I suppose it's not travel for Star, but it is for the rest of us, right? Seemed to make sense for here, although it can be moved, I won't be offended. ;)


That's the thing - Australia's so big that in my whole life I've only seen a tiny fraction of it (there are still four states I haven't even been to). I'd love to see a lot more, it seems a shame sometimes that I focus all my travel energies on overseas. I’d love to do as a friend did and spend six months or more just travelling around and seeing all I can. I lived with people in Japan, mostly English, who had seen a lot more of the place than I have. But it would be very strange to consider myself a backpacker in Australia…

Hmmm, and maybe I should add a geography outline to this thread?



Actually, I'm curious about the presence (or lack thereof) of indigenous societies in Australia nowadays. Most of what I know is gleaned from Peter Weir films. I would know nothing about Australia if it wasn't for Peter Weir films. Haha. :p Also I saw Rabbit-Proof Fence - and that film is the extent of my knowledge about how indigenous groups were treated in the past.

Rabbit-Proof Fence was a pretty good movie;)

I'm not sure how accurate any information I can give on the state of indigenous affairs in Australia is - for one, I've spent the vast majority of my life in a (semi-)metropolitan centre with a small aboriginal population, and also, it is a rather contentious issue. But yes, indigenous communities do exist, especially in remote places - the outback, up north (i.e., the Northern Territory and far North Queensland). I couldn't give you population numbers, but maybe there is information somewhere. From what I understand, conditions vary and such communities are often under scrutiny because social problems and crime can be real issues.

In more metropolitan areas, people with indigenous backgrounds can still face discrimination and other difficulties because of the history of settlement in this country. From Rabbit-Proof Fence, you learn about the "Stolen Generation", aboriginal children taken from their families to be raised "appropriately" by white society. But there have been a lot more tragedies visited upon the native population throughout history – massacres, marginalisation, denial of rights, and so on.

In recent years, "Reconciliation" has been a political and social force, particularly in that the ex-Prime Minister John Howard caused controversy by refusing to apologise for the treatment of indigenous peoples for the last two hundred years. New PM, Kevin Rudd, has turned that around.



I'm also curious about surfing. Okay, I don't surf, but I want to start. And where I grew up, the waves are pretty big - I'm usually afraid to go in the ocean, in fact, despite my swimming abilities. Are there hugely enormous waves in Australia? Have you ever seen them, Star?

I've never surfed in my life, only going as far as boogie boarding as a kid. There are supposed to be great surfing beaches all over the place, but I couldn't tell you where or how high (or dangerous) the waves get. Every beach I've been to (south east coast) has been tame enough, nothing too scary except for the occasional rough day. Further north, and the west coast, are popular for surfing though.


Thanks for making the thread for me! :) I've got to think up some good questions (I've got a lot of questions, but I don't know how many are actually good).

They're all good, if we can learn something one way or another. I am dedicated to destroying stereotypes:) That being said, it all comes with a caveat: I may not be the best source of some kinds of information, but I’ll do my best to point you in the right direction. I hope that if we get any Aussies stopping by they can add to the thread too.

[margaine]

So I know there are mangoes. But what other fruit grows near you? Yum, fresh fruit. :D

[Star_Anise]

So I know there are mangoes. But what other fruit grows near you? Yum, fresh fruit. :D

Near me? I'm not entirely sure from how far away some of the fruit comes, but the region is good for apples, oranges, pears, watermelon and strawberries. Also cherries in season, and mangoes, rockmelon, berries, peaches, apricots and nectarines, but some of those come from further away (QLD, most likely). And there are bananas, of course, although the crops were destroyed (by a cyclone?) last year and were imported (at up to twenty times the price) until the next crop came in. You can get just about anything else (carambola, lychees, figs...) if you know where to go.

[margaine]

What are some things that you would consider to be typically Australian? (customs, habits, foods, etc)

I know that can be an unfair question. If someone asked me that about the US I'd have no idea what to say. And I think at some point we had all remarked that barbecues are both typically American and typically Australian. :rolleyes:

[Marlow]

Jez, are you planning on going to Austrailia?

[Jez]

Nope, just curious. I would like to go to Australia, but no funds for travel right now. I'll just travel vicariously.


How does it work still being connected to England like you are?

[Star_Anise]

What are some things that you would consider to be typically Australian? (customs, habits, foods, etc)

I know that can be an unfair question. If someone asked me that about the US I'd have no idea what to say. And I think at some point we had all remarked that barbecues are both typically American and typically Australian. :rolleyes:

You're right, it is a tricky question, because I don't believe in "typical", usually. We're also a relatively young country, in terms of modern culture, and we have a lot of different influences...it's all a bit fraught:) For instance, lamb is thought to be very Australian, as well as meat pies, but I don't eat them. I don't particularly like lamingtons (squares of sponge cake covered in chocolate icing and dried coconut) or pavlova. For me, good Australian food means food that is fresh and has a lot of variety, and lots of different cultural influences. And Vegemite:)

Something I have noticed are certain ways that we interact socially - we like to "take the piss" (make fun of each other) and don't take ourselves, or others, too seriously. It ends up being a cliche, the "larrikin" Aussie, but we like to laugh and joke around. I also think we have a great outdoor lifestyle, which may be less so in some places, and possibly decreasing in some ways, but when we have good weather we use it. We like to eat outside (barbeques, picnics, outside at restaurants, or just sitting on the verandah), play games in the backyard or street (who doesn't remember street cricket from childhood summers?), go for walks, and just generally make the best of it. I found the rather indoors-y aspect of living in Japan a bit difficult myself, maybe that's why I had to climb a mountain:)

I think there are some other stereotypes that are upheld - pretty much everyone I know wears thongs (aka flip-flops) and we do tend to be heavy drinkers (although nothing compared to a lot of the English people I've known). Otherwise, it's the little things - habits of speech, physical tendencies, etc. - that I will have to try and remember. For instance, "I reckon" is a commonly used phrase that other English speakers don't quite get. It can mean "I think" (as in, "I reckon it will rain"), seeking agreement or clarification ("You reckon?"), or an emphatic statement of agreement ("You think it'll rain?" - "I reckon!", or, sometimes, simply "Reckon!"). And Australians often have a particular way of holding themselves - a relaxed, almost-slouch. I've been known to pick Aussies overseas just from the way they're standing...

And if anyone ever gets stuck in a hostel full of a tour group of Aussies, I apologise in advance for how obnoxious they might be.


Nope, just curious. I would like to go to Australia, but no funds for travel right now. I'll just travel vicariously.

How does it work still being connected to England like you are?

I'm not sure what you mean...I have some English heritage, but no known relatives there. I do have relations in Ireland, although we are at least five generations removed. So, it's not a close association, but it is both strange and wonderful. Certain interested members of the clans try to keep in touch every now and then, but the only Australians to visit the "ancestral home" for quite some time have been my Dad and myself. My sister (who has been living in England since September on a working holiday) hopes to visit them in the next month. It almost functions like a family myth, in some weird way - a place, distant in time and space, to which we can trace some origin of ourselves. Besides that, it is a beautiful part of the world, they are wonderful people, and I hope to return in the not-too-distant future. I'll keep encouraging the exchange, which I hope will one day go both ways. I think I've been handed the role of family historian by default, but when it leads to such wonderful experiences, I can't complain.

(As an aside, the Irish family have been contacted by the American branch of the family, which is the smallest, I believe. Have I mentioned my surname is so rare that if I meet someone with the same name, or a variation, we are definitely related? One day I hope to trace our roots back through France, where the name comes from.)

[margaine]

I think there are some other stereotypes that are upheld - pretty much everyone I know wears thongs (aka flip-flops)

And if anyone ever gets stuck in a hostel full of a tour group of Aussies, I apologise in advance for how obnoxious they might be.

I think a lot of people wear flip flops here too, but I guess in places where it is warm more often, you can wear them more. (So wikipedia seems to be saying that modern flip flops were initially worn in New Zealand and Australia. I was unaware of that stereotype/connection). Sorry, I can't say "thongs" for "flip flops" I just can't, it means something else. :rolleyes: Anyway, when I was in a hostel in Paris (haha, there wasn't a group, just a few!), there was an Australian girl who had spent a good deal of time in Italy prior to visiting Paris. And she was talking about how when she and her Australian friends would go out walking, all of the Italians were quite horrified that the Australians were wearing flip-flops because that was just not up to their fashion standards.



(As an aside, the Irish family have been contacted by the American branch of the family, which is the smallest, I believe. Have I mentioned my surname is so rare that if I meet someone with the same name, or a variation, we are definitely related? One day I hope to trace our roots back through France, where the name comes from.)

My surname is rare in that way also. It's kind of fun. But I don't think there are any people with it to be found outside of the US. Perhaps it was invented upon arrival here, but I'm not sure.

[Jez]

Oh, I'm sorry, I meant 'you' as in 'Australia', not you specifically. Though it is always interesting to learn about you. :)


What are some common phrases or words that used by Australians (like reckon, which I never knew was used so much there)?

[Jez]

That's really fun about your last names. And yes, as Margaine said, I thought you were talking about a very different thong. ;)

What is the relationship between New Zealand and Australia?


(are we doing the one question per-post as in the interview threads?)

[Star_Anise]

I think a lot of people wear flip flops here too, but I guess in places where it is warm more often, you can wear them more. (So wikipedia seems to be saying that modern flip flops were initially worn in New Zealand and Australia. I was unaware of that stereotype/connection). Sorry, I can't say "thongs" for "flip flops" I just can't, it means something else. :rolleyes: Anyway, when I was in a hostel in Paris (haha, there wasn't a group, just a few!), there was an Australian girl who had spent a good deal of time in Italy prior to visiting Paris. And she was talking about how when she and her Australian friends would go out walking, all of the Italians were quite horrified that the Australians were wearing flip-flops because that was just not up to their fashion standards.

My surname is rare in that way also. It's kind of fun. But I don't think there are any people with it to be found outside of the US. Perhaps it was invented upon arrival here, but I'm not sure.

Oh, trust me, there have been many thong jokes made, to death in fact...but "flip flops" just sounds ridiculous. We have another word for the American "thong"...and while I say they're very common here, there are also nuances. For instance, at uni, you could tell the students who had moved inland from the south coast to study, because even in winter (on days below 10C) they'd be wearing shorts and thongs. You'll see signs at bars and clubs stating that the dress code doesn't allow thongs, and so on. I myself don't wear them, mostly because I never developed that callous between my toes, so they're uncomfortable. Although I'd consider a "dress" thong. See, not even footwear is straightforward.


Oh, I'm sorry, I meant 'you' as in 'Australia', not you specifically. Though it is always interesting to learn about you. :)


Ah, confusion clears.

Well, the England connection has obviously wielded a lot of historical influence, but I'd say the past fifty years has seen a shift taking place. A lot of our heritage is based on English things (food, sport, language), and our politics have followed their lead for a lot of history. As I think I explained elsewhere, we are a member of the Commonwealth, the Queen is technically our head of state, with the Governor General being her representative here (hehe, I am currently about ten minutes from his residence..), but these things are mostly formalities. Since WWII, politics have been more oriented to the US, but that's as much a reflection of shifting world power as it is a comment on the Aust/UK relationship. In practical terms, I don't require holiday visas for Commonwealth countries, am bored to death by cricket but am rather appreciative of English comedy. Mainstream culture still retains a lot of British influences, but partly because we began life as a convict settlement, there are also a lot of jokes made at the expense of "whinging poms" (the Australian stereotyping of the English as people who incessantly complain).



What are some common phrases or words that used by Australians (like reckon, which I never knew was used so much there)?

Words and phrases - there are lots. I might have to update as I learn more.

I think I'll start with a list we had in the teacher's room in Japan, of word categories and the slang applicable in each country. So, an Australian word for kiss = "pash", to have sex with = "root", be drunk = "tanked", "legless", "smashed", "gone", "off your face"...and lots more. We use "cheers" much like our British counterparts - when we clink glasses, and to say thank you. As opposed to saying, "You're cheering", which means everything's good, you're set, things'll work out well.

As for the kind of stereotypical slang you might hear in movies and such, a lot of that is really outdated or only used among certain groups. ("Sheila" = woman, "blower" = telephone, etc). "Mate" does tend to get a lot of press, and it is commonly used. It means "friend", but can be used in a positive sense or kind of like "buddy" or "pal" is used as a warning with people you don't know ("you wanna watch what you're doing, mate?").

Phrases and expressions are a little more difficult to remember. One that seems to cause puzzlement is "How you going?", which means the same as "How are you?".

There's to "pay out", which means make fun of, like "taking the piss".

It's hard to remember others off the top of my head, but I'll add more as I remember, or if you come across anything you'd like explained, let me know.


That's really fun about your last names. And yes, as Margaine said, I thought you were talking about a very different thong. ;)

What is the relationship between New Zealand and Australia?


(are we doing the one question per-post as in the interview threads?)

I don't mind, fire away with as many questions as you have.

NZ and Australia...I've not known too many New Zealanders, and never visited, but mostly we get along. We have lots of in-jokes about each other (yes, sheep), and certain arrangements that make things easier between us, such as not needing a passport to travel between the two countries. Politically, I'd say things are mostly amicable, with neither making an effort to follow/lead the other. They may be our closest neighbours (I think? how close are Indonesia, PNG?), but we are pretty independent. But I don't know too much about NZ politics, sadly. That probably sums it up, actually - hang out next to each other, doing our own thing, until we have reason to get together. Oh, and Australia is known for stealing the credit for talented New Zealanders (Crowded House, for one). But do we really want Russell Crowe?

[Jez]

This is so much fun :)

In regard to politics being more oriented to the US, how does that affect the average Australian?


Those words are crazy! :p Are there any American phrases or words that sound strange or slang to you?

Do you have Outback Steakhouses in Australia? What do you and/or Australians in general think of the restaurants?

Do any political decisions made by England directly affect Australia? Meaning, if England made a law, could it ever have to apply for Australians as well?

Are Australian regional accents are different from each other as American regional accents (if you're familiar with them)?

You mentioned Russell Crowe (who I didn't realize was from NZ), how is the celebrity/hollywood culture in Australia? Is it as popular and life consuming as it is here?

Umm, I'll have to think of more questions.

[Jez]

Oh, Evan just informed me (with laughter) that asking about the Outback restaurants has annoyed the Australians he knows. I'm sorry if it's an annoying question :embarrass

[margaine]

I myself don't wear them, mostly because I never developed that callous between my toes, so they're uncomfortable. Although I'd consider a "dress" thong. See, not even footwear is straightforward.


Gasp! Someone else who, like me, doesn't think flip-flops are the most comfortable things on earth! I've tried, I really have, but they always end up being uncomfortable in some way. :rolleyes: The ones from Old Navy aren't too bad though.

And this is a lot of fun. Thanks for answering all of our questions Star!

[Jez]

I don't like wearing flip-flops either. I'm not comfortable in them, plus I'm far too clumsy to wear such an open and trip-prone shoe.

[Star_Anise]

This is so much fun :)

In regard to politics being more oriented to the US, how does that affect the average Australian?


It makes a lot of them angry and leads to many an argument at social gatherings...it's kind of hard for me to say exactly how much of an effect it does have, as it's really subjective. Some believe there is a huge influence, but I'm not so sure. Not much of it is a direct influence, more of a filtered effect, of world events. On a day-to-day basis, it means we pay attention to US politics that have international repercussions - say things like the war in Iraq - but whether we can do anything about it is another matter.



Those words are crazy! :p Are there any American phrases or words that sound strange or slang to you?

American slang? Because of our exposure to American cultural products, we hear a lot of American speech, so nothing really surprises me. Personally, I'm more amused by British variations, which seem a bit more creative. Oh, and Canadian slang - there are some interesting words/phrases there. If I think of any American ones, I'll tell you.



Do you have Outback Steakhouses in Australia? What do you and/or Australians in general think of the restaurants?


Oh, Evan just informed me (with laughter) that asking about the Outback restaurants has annoyed the Australians he knows. I'm sorry if it's an annoying question :embarrass

Hehe, that's ok, I'm not actually very familiar with these - are they like an Australian themed restaurant? What do they serve there? Like any such places, for any country, they probably just annoy the natives through stereotypes...as long as they're not insulting. I'd be interested to know what they're like, what food they serve...The Australian themed places I've encountered overseas haven't been anything like "real" Australian bars/restaurants. As musi can attest, the ubiquitousness of Foster's beer really does annoy me - no one I know drinks it, it is terrible and should not be thought of as representative of the culture/tastes of Aussies.



Do any political decisions made by England directly affect Australia? Meaning, if England made a law, could it ever have to apply for Australians as well?

That's the technical aspect - I'm not sure exactly what would have to happen for laws made in England to be applicable here, but it would be difficult. There'd be a process that would have to passed, and it would likely meet with great resistance.

Except, in the 1970's, there was the Dismissal - our then Prime Minister Gough Whitlam was dismissed by the Governor General and boy was there an uproar.



Are Australian regional accents are different from each other as American regional accents (if you're familiar with them)?

The difference is nowhere near as pronounced as I believe American accents can be. They lie in subtleties usually. The biggest difference in general is between rural and metropolitan areas, but you probably get that in every country, and our differences probably follow similar patterns (in the country they speak more slowly, use more slang, have a broader accent, etc). Slang can very definitely be state-specific, though.



You mentioned Russell Crowe (who I didn't realize was from NZ), how is the celebrity/hollywood culture in Australia? Is it as popular and life consuming as it is here?

Umm, I'll have to think of more questions.

No where near as crazy as the US or the UK, I'd say. It exists, but there's not really anything to get excited about. Our television and movie industries struggle as it is, so there's not too much that happens at home, but there is plenty of coverage of international celebrities. Women's magazines follow those kinds of things, but any purely celebrity-based media tends to be imported.

[Star_Anise]

Gasp! Someone else who, like me, doesn't think flip-flops are the most comfortable things on earth! I've tried, I really have, but they always end up being uncomfortable in some way. :rolleyes: The ones from Old Navy aren't too bad though.

And this is a lot of fun. Thanks for answering all of our questions Star!

No problem:)


I don't like wearing flip-flops either. I'm not comfortable in them, plus I'm far too clumsy to wear such an open and trip-prone shoe.

I agree - except I have worn sturdier dress thongs before that had a very wide band that came down from the toes and across the foot, and so they actually stayed on. Usually I think they just look naff.. and I have seen heeled thongs before, which must require a magic trick to keep on your feet...I think the rubber ones belong only in communal showers!

[margaine]

I agree - except I have worn sturdier dress thongs before that had a very wide band that came down from the toes and across the foot, and so they actually stayed on. Usually I think they just look naff.. and I have seen heeled thongs before, which must require a magic trick to keep on your feet...I think the rubber ones belong only in communal showers!

naff? :p

[Star_Anise]

naff? :p

Um, maybe that one's British in origin. "Naff" is kind of like uncool, in poor taste. To illustrate, if you've seen the movie Garden State, the fact he has a shirt made from the same fabric on the walls can be described as naff. Pronounced as the "a" rhyming with that in "rat".

[Jez]

Re: Outback Steakhouse, here's their menu- http://www.outback.com/foodandmenus/pdf/C100T.pdf

What do you think of it? :) As far as what tastes good, their bloomin onion is great and I usually get their toowomba pasta (though it's got seafood). Now that I look at it, it doesn't seem very vegetarian friendly.

[musi]

I thing the first thing I ever asked Star about Australia was "what's the weather down there?", because the country is so far away, that is hard to imagine what it really feels like there :)

*checks the map*

Looks like Australia's latitude is approximately that of North Africa, yet the climate is very different :) If I ever make it there, it'll be in Australian summer, definetely - I've got more than enough winter up here. :)

[Star_Anise]

Re: Outback Steakhouse, here's their menu- http://www.outback.com/foodandmenus/pdf/C100T.pdf

What do you think of it? :) As far as what tastes good, their bloomin onion is great and I usually get their toowomba pasta (though it's got seafood). Now that I look at it, it doesn't seem very vegetarian friendly.

Oh, that menu is hilarious! For one, a lot of the dishes don't have anything to do with the places they're named after, and there are things I can't even identify, and a lot of it seems "typically American" to me. Prime rib sandwich? What's hickory sauce? Tasso ham? Why are so many meat dishes served with cinnamon apples? The whole thing's a bit of a puzzle to me...some not very Australian fusion thing seems to be going on. The varieties of cheese alone are mystifying - where's the good old "Tasty"?:p The Queensland salad is an enigma to me...but I'll stop now. This could amuse me for hours. When I make it to the US I might have to visit one of these places just for a laugh.


I thing the first thing I ever asked Star about Australia was "what's the weather down there?", because the country is so far away, that is hard to imagine what it really feels like there :)

*checks the map*

Looks like Australia's latitude is approximately that of North Africa, yet the climate is very different :) If I ever make it there, it'll be in Australian summer, definetely - I've got more than enough winter up here. :)

It's a perfectly normal question, I get it quite often. But I have to remind people it's a big country which spans several climatic zones....so while they get 30+ year-round in some parts, I'm shivering in Canberra in the winter while there's snow in the alps. Sub-tropical to desert, temperate to the roaring forties...but I will say, give me dry heat over humidity any day. Queensland and Japan share that humidity and it is not for me.

[margaine]

What's your favorite thing(s) about Australia?

:p I like to ask you questions that I'd have trouble answering about the United States. Haha. Actually I think the short answer I'd give about the United States is that one of my favorite things is diversity. Cheesy but true.

Oh yeah, I've never been to an Outback Steakhouse. I'm so glad you were so amused by it Star!

[Jez]

Oh, that menu is hilarious! For one, a lot of the dishes don't have anything to do with the places they're named after, and there are things I can't even identify, and a lot of it seems "typically American" to me. Prime rib sandwich? What's hickory sauce? Tasso ham? Why are so many meat dishes served with cinnamon apples? The whole thing's a bit of a puzzle to me...some not very Australian fusion thing seems to be going on. The varieties of cheese alone are mystifying - where's the good old "Tasty"?:p The Queensland salad is an enigma to me...but I'll stop now. This could amuse me for hours. When I make it to the US I might have to visit one of these places just for a laugh.



:p I'm glad you found it funny. I think hickory sauce is a kind of bbq sauce. Maybe with a smoky flavor? I have no idea what Tasso ham is. I'm not sure why cinnamon apples are so big there, but they are tasty. What things seem typically American to you? Are there any things on the menu that even resemble Australian cuisine?


How are the -ism issues in Australia? (sexism, racism, etc)

[Star_Anise]

What's your favorite thing(s) about Australia?

:p I like to ask you questions that I'd have trouble answering about the United States. Haha. Actually I think the short answer I'd give about the United States is that one of my favorite things is diversity. Cheesy but true.

Oh yeah, I've never been to an Outback Steakhouse. I'm so glad you were so amused by it Star!

I'll try to keep my answer short - but your "cheesy" one is pretty true for me too. Diversity of people, cultures, places, opinions, choices...it's not the kind of diversity you get in a place like Europe, where all those countries are tumbled together, but a growing worldliness.

Aside from that, Australia is my home, however much I enjoy leaving it. So, I really value things that mean home to me - the landscape, the freedom of movement without borders, the space. Having never been a city girl (Canberra's more like a big town), I like my space, I like to be near the bush, I like to have the natural world around me. And it's not difficult to have that in a lot of the country - just avoid places like Sydney and Melbourne.


:p I'm glad you found it funny. I think hickory sauce is a kind of bbq sauce. Maybe with a smoky flavor? I have no idea what Tasso ham is. I'm not sure why cinnamon apples are so big there, but they are tasty. What things seem typically American to you? Are there any things on the menu that even resemble Australian cuisine?

I'm going off memory here because I can't access the menu from work, but the kinds of cheese (Monterey Jack?) struck me as a bit American...and there were baby back ribs, and the kinds of sauces...I'll have another look and see what else seemed skewed to the US.



How are the -ism issues in Australia? (sexism, racism, etc)

A complicated question, especially in regards to racism. In the past, there was an awful amount of discrimination towards Aborigines, and then the non-Anglo immigrants, and things have improved (as a side note, PM Rudd delivered his landmark "Sorry" speech last week...), but it's still a land of many tensions. We call ourselves multicultural, but perhaps the discrimination has just become more subtle. While I think in general there's a healthy tolerance, immigrants and ethnic minorities often suffer from disadvantages, and as I imagine everywhere else, it is not a comfortable time for relations between the Muslim community and the mainstream. I'll mention it again - the Cronulla riots of 2005 reveal these tensions. It used to be Asian people who suffered the worst of it, before that it was the "wogs" (Italian/Greek/Middle Eastern people)...now it's anyone who prays at a Mosque. But I compare Australia with my experiences in Japan, and I think we are able to embrace diversity well in some ways.

As to sexism, I'd say we're pretty much equal with most of the Western world in that respect. Women are still disadvantaged economically, politically and sometimes socially, but it grows less all the time and is more of an irritant than a general state of affairs. If I perceive any real effects, it's those of old-fashioned social expectations of the differences between men and women. I'm a woman so I should want kids, right? And marriage? And I can't read a map, can I...?

Ageism is something that those close to me have been feeling lately, in regards to the professional world. After a certain age, it becomes difficult to get a job, because employers don't want to invest in anyone remotely close to retirement. And there's the general Western valuing of youth as beauty.

If you've ever seen the movie Priscilla, Queen of the Desert, you might think we have issues regarding discrimination against gay people. But, the situation seems to mirror the rest of the West - widespread understanding, concentrated discrimination. A bill legalising gay marriage was actually passed in my state within the past two years, but then revoked and is once again under legislation. Personally, I would like to see it passed, and the fact that it has been so close shows how much progress we've made.

Probably to reinforce more stereotypes, I would say that each of these -isms is experienced differently depending on where you are. But did I miss any you were interested in?

[margaine]

I dunno which ones Jez was interested in, but you certainly covered a lot of -isms there! ;)

[Jez]

Probably to reinforce more stereotypes, I would say that each of these -isms is experienced differently depending on where you are. But did I miss any you were interested in?

Nope :) You're awesome with this thread. (and other threads of course ;) )


Hm, ok, here's a question to make me seem at least a little dumb- How is your government set up? I know a little, and you've answered some, but what's it like in general. And I guess related, how is Australia politically divided, if it is (like we've got our red and blue states)?

[Star_Anise]

Nope :) You're awesome with this thread. (and other threads of course ;) )


Hm, ok, here's a question to make me seem at least a little dumb- How is your government set up? I know a little, and you've answered some, but what's it like in general. And I guess related, how is Australia politically divided, if it is (like we've got our red and blue states)?

I'm doing my best:)

As for how the government is set up, I'll have to answer that a little later - for one, I need to refresh my memory on some details, and for another, I haven't too much time right now and it'll take some explaining.

What do you mean by red and blues states? I've never heard of this before. Do you mean, which states support which politcal parties? Because that I'm not sure about - but I'm sure I'll find out when I do my refresher course.

[Jez]

Oh, yes, red and blue states are for the democrat (blue) and republican (red) parties.

[Star_Anise]

Hm, ok, here's a question to make me seem at least a little dumb- How is your government set up? I know a little, and you've answered some, but what's it like in general. And I guess related, how is Australia politically divided, if it is (like we've got our red and blue states)?

Ok, even after refreshing my memory on the details, I’m still not sure I can explain things very well. I believe the Australian system of government has been described as one of the most difficult to understand, but I’ll try.

It’s a parliamentary democracy, a federation, and a constitutional monarchy. Parliament is composed of two houses, the Senate and the House of Representatives, with the heads of state running as the Queen, the Governor-General, the Prime Minister, and the Opposition Leader. It’s a two party system, currently Labor and Liberal (Labor having won the majority at last November’s election, ending an 11 year stranglehold by Howard’s Liberal government). This forms the Legislative component of the three arms of government, the two others being the Executive (Sovereign) and the Judiciary. This is the separation of powers, the explanation of which I’ll borrow from wikipedia:



The Legislature proposes laws in the form of Bills, and provides a legislative *****work for the operations of the other two arms. The Sovereign is formally a part of the Parliament, but takes no active role in these matters

The Executive enacts the laws by Royal Assent, administers the laws and carries out the tasks assigned to it by legislation

The Judiciary hears cases arising from the administration of the law, using both statute law and the common law. The Australian courts cannot give advisory opinions on the constitutionality of laws

The Executive branch is basically the six sovereign states – each of which has its own constitution and functions independently of the other. There are also three territories (I was surprised by this; I only knew of two, one of which is mine) which are self-governing in a similar sense.

National elections are held at least every three years; all elections involve some kind of preferential voting (and voting is compulsory). The House of Representatives has 150 members elected from single seat constituencies, while the Senate has 76 seats, with each state electing 12 senators and each territory electing two. State senators serve six year terms while territory senator’s terms match those of the House of Representatives. State and territory elections are held every four years.

As for state and territory political support, I can’t really form an opinion. There are preferences, but I can’t get my head around them very well. Politics is not my strong point, but even aside from that, I still support compulsory voting and cast valid votes (as one way people have of getting around the law is to fill out their ballot so it is invalid; another measure is called donkey voting, whereby the voter just votes for the first candidate in each section).

I’m not sure if that was a particularly good explanation, so feel free to ask questions and I’ll try to answer.

[Taisho]

Whoa - so much discussion about Australia! I myself am from Melbourne, though I wasn't born in Australia. I have a great respect for the society and government here, but I've decided long ago that as soon as circumstances allow I will move to NZ - I've always been fond of European countryside, so I never quite fit in with the hot weather and the gum trees. However, far from turning this thread to New Zealand discussion, I am able to answer questions too. :D

[Star_Anise]

Whoa - so much discussion about Australia! I myself am from Melbourne, though I wasn't born in Australia. I have a great respect for the society and government here, but I've decided long ago that as soon as circumstances allow I will move to NZ - I've always been fond of European countryside, so I never quite fit in with the hot weather and the gum trees. However, far from turning this thread to New Zealand discussion, I am able to answer questions too. :D

Nice to have another local around the place, sometimes it seems a little lonely in this hemisphere...NZ is an interesting choice, I'd like to visit some day.

[Taisho]

Yes, it's quite comforting to have a fellow aussie here! :P Where are you from, Star_Anise?

Before I forget - has anyone seen Kevin Rudd's apology to indigenous people of Australia? We watched it at school at lunchtime - it was quite moving! It's about time! :)

[Star_Anise]

Yes, it's quite comforting to have a fellow aussie here! :P Where are you from, Star_Anise?

Before I forget - has anyone seen Kevin Rudd's apology to indigenous people of Australia? We watched it at school at lunchtime - it was quite moving! It's about time! :)

I'm from Canberra...but try not to hold that against me!

I didn't see the entire thing, but it sure did take its time in happening. Now we see if policy changes to reflect a better situation for indigenous Australians.

[margaine]

I'm from Canberra...but try not to hold that against me!

Why might she hold it against you? What is the significance of Canberra?

[Star_Anise]

Why might she hold it against you? What is the significance of Canberra?

Other than the capital city? We were a planned city which is often accused of being boring and soulless, and the majority of its inhabitants being boring, soulless public servants. It's a nice enough place though, if you're so inclined.

[margaine]

Other than the capital city? We were a planned city which is often accused of being boring and soulless, and the majority of its inhabitants being boring, soulless public servants. It's a nice enough place though, if you're so inclined.

I guess that's kind of how I feel about Washington, D.C. come to think of it. ;) Boring place full of lots of monuments and white stone buildings that you visit on class trips.

[Star_Anise]

I guess that's kind of how I feel about Washington, D.C. come to think of it. ;) Boring place full of lots of monuments and white stone buildings that you visit on class trips.

That's kind of it, although the sentiment runs a little deeper here for various reasons...but what was nice about growing up here was that we got to go elsewhere for our school trips - Sydney is so much more exciting:)

[Taisho]

Canberra just happens to be between Melbourne and Sydney, and since it was too hard to decide which one should be the capital, they thought "Hey, lets get Canberra." But I personally don't have anything against it. I've been there once for a few days - I thought it was a nice, peaceful place.
There's supposed to be a gathering in honor of the 1932-33 Famine in Ukraine happening in Canberra, at Parliament House. I go to a Ukrainian language school (I was born in Ukraine), so they're trying to get as many people as possible to gather. I'm not going, but on of my friends is. Should be interesting. Has anyone heard about it?

[margaine]

Is there a very large Ukranian population in Australia? I had no idea . . .

There's a really good Ukranian restaurant in New York that I love, and I have some Ukranian ancestors, but that's all I know. :rolleyes:

[Star_Anise]

Canberra just happens to be between Melbourne and Sydney, and since it was too hard to decide which one should be the capital, they thought "Hey, lets get Canberra." But I personally don't have anything against it. I've been there once for a few days - I thought it was a nice, peaceful place.
There's supposed to be a gathering in honor of the 1932-33 Famine in Ukraine happening in Canberra, at Parliament House. I go to a Ukrainian language school (I was born in Ukraine), so they're trying to get as many people as possible to gather. I'm not going, but on of my friends is. Should be interesting. Has anyone heard about it?

This is the first I've heard of it...any idea why they chose Parliament House for it?

They actually checked out a few places as the possible site for Canberra, including parts of QLD...until they realised it was strategically safer to stick us here. To think how different things would be if I lived north...

I know there must be a small Ukrainian community here, but then there are small communities of...everyone:)

[Star_Anise]

What are some common phrases or words that used by Australians (like reckon, which I never knew was used so much there)?

So, one has since occurred to me, don't know if I've mentioned it before - the term "bogan" refers to someone who is pretty much the equivalent of the American redneck. Speaks with an ocker accent, drinks beer from a can, not well educated...you get the idea.

And it also occurred to me that I could recommend at least one source of what I consider to be a natural Australian accent - Jesse Spencer, who plays Chase on House. Cate Blanchett is another well-known Australian but I think her accent is quite neutral.

[margaine]

And it also occurred to me that I could recommend at least one source of what I consider to be a natural Australian accent - Jesse Spencer, who plays Chase on House. Cate Blanchett is another well-known Australian but I think her accent is quite neutral.

Teehee, really? I will just imagine you sound like Chase . . . wait, that doesn't make sense. :p I can't think of what Cate Blanchett sounds like.

[Star_Anise]

Teehee, really? I will just imagine you sound like Chase . . . wait, that doesn't make sense. :p I can't think of what Cate Blanchett sounds like.

Well, I can't stop you imagining, but...I am generally not considered to have a typical accent - people have thought I sound things as various as English, American, and the weird one, Irish. That's here...when I travel, people pick Australian straight away.

Can't remember her in LOTR? Her voice isn't too far off her natural speech in that, if you discount dramatics.

[Jez]

Hm, Chase huh? Sounds good.

I didn't know bogan before. Do regular people not drink beer from cans?

[Star_Anise]

Hm, Chase huh? Sounds good.

I didn't know bogan before. Do regular people not drink beer from cans?

Regular people, hehe...I thought just like anywhere else though, there was a bit of a heirarchy - can at the bottom, bottle in the middle, glass at the top. But it's just part of the bogan stereotype - the "tinny" (can of beer). We also have these things called stubbie holders - it's like a polyethylene sleeve that you slip over your beer can to keep it cold. Like a reverse tea-cosy. I don't own one, although occasionally I drink beer from a can and wear a beanie (knitted woollen hat) - although rarely at the same time;) Fortunately, I never wear tracky daks (tracksuit pants) outside the house.

Still with me?

[margaine]

Regular people, hehe...I thought just like anywhere else though, there was a bit of a heirarchy - can at the bottom, bottle in the middle, glass at the top. But it's just part of the bogan stereotype - the "tinny" (can of beer). We also have these things called stubbie holders - it's like a polyethylene sleeve that you slip over your beer can to keep it cold. Like a reverse tea-cosy. I don't own one, although occasionally I drink beer from a can and wear a beanie (knitted woollen hat) - although rarely at the same time;) Fortunately, I never wear tracky daks (tracksuit pants) outside the house.


all those terms are really entertaining me :). I don't know much about beer hierarchies since I don't drink, but we have those sleeves here too - do real people use them? maybe for sporting events? what do I know . . .

there was a time - maybe like 10 years ago - when track pants were quite trendy here. I forgot about that. now all the undergrads wear various forms of sweatpants, all the time. what is up with that? can't they wear real pants?

[Star_Anise]

all those terms are really entertaining me :). I don't know much about beer hierarchies since I don't drink, but we have those sleeves here too - do real people use them? maybe for sporting events? what do I know . . .

Sure, people use them...I have some friends who collect the ones you get at music festivals and concerts...and then use them...they are still quite popular here.



there was a time - maybe like 10 years ago - when track pants were quite trendy here. I forgot about that. now all the undergrads wear various forms of sweatpants, all the time. what is up with that? can't they wear real pants?

Hehe, real pants...I don't think students wear them so much here. In my opinion, they're for lounging around home in or working out in. Plus, all that stretchy fabric is not flattering on me...I won't even make a quick trip to the shops in them. Yet I know people who'll throw a coat on over their pajamas and duck out for milk...

Ah, are we identifying the real markers of class in Australian society, beer and tracky daks?

[musi]

Regular people, hehe...I thought just like anywhere else though, there was a bit of a heirarchy - can at the bottom, bottle in the middle, glass at the top.

hehe, you just reminded me of my boyfriend's beerglass collection - before drinking beer one (as a true connoisseur) spends time choosing a glass.. :rolleyes: :p

[Star_Anise]

For those interested in Australian politics at all, the first female Governor General will be sworn in later this year. Which reminds me how small the world is, as the current GG worked with my father when he was in the army, posted in New Guinea. My mother talks about hosting dinner parties for him and his wife. Tiny, tiny world.

[Star_Anise]

I'm not sure how many have been aware of the bushfires this year, but very serious ones have been burning in Victoria, resulting in the highest loss of life on record. 210 people have officially died, thousands of homes have been lost and hundreds of thousands of hectares of bush and farming land been burnt out. Fires continue to burn, and with 38C predicted for today, my thoughts are with the firefighters and those threatened by the blazes.

[Winifred]

I have really been surprised at the number of deaths from fires over there, Star. In tornado country in the states, the towns have sirens which blast when a tornado is coming through, to warn people to seek shelter. Would something like that work for brushfires? How do so many get caught, in this era of instant communication?

I do know that bad fires can roar along as fast as 60 mph, but still, you can see them coming. So sad!

[Star_Anise]

I do know that bad fires can roar along as fast as 60 mph, but still, you can see them coming. So sad!

The greatest problem is when those bushfires change direction suddenly, or a wind comes up and they cross containment lines. Especially in the 2003 Canberra fires, lack of early warning was an issue. Plus, even when there is plenty of warning, there are still those who choose to stay and defend their property, risking their own lives in the process.

[padmar]

I find it hard to believe that lunatics actually start them!

[Star_Anise]

If you've ever seen the movie Priscilla, Queen of the Desert, you might think we have issues regarding discrimination against gay people. But, the situation seems to mirror the rest of the West - widespread understanding, concentrated discrimination. A bill legalising gay marriage was actually passed in my state within the past two years, but then revoked and is once again under legislation. Personally, I would like to see it passed, and the fact that it has been so close shows how much progress we've made.



And here's a random update on this - the civil union legislation was just passed for the third time, and there is a six month window in which it can again be contested, as it was by the Howard government. However much I hope it will stick again, it does't seem well supported by the Rudd government either.

[WarMachine]

I dream way to much about going to Australia :P

[margaine]

I just got really excited because I saw an announcement for a "1st Annual Australian Festival," and I thought it would be really funny to go and report back here about how Australia is being represented in Southern California.


authentic Australian music, food, wine and imported Aussie beers. Highlights of the event will include Australian music, food, beer, exhibits and an Aussie sports arena broadcasting live cricket, rugby and the Australian Tennis Open.

And what do you think
gourmet Aussie hors d’ouevres are??

But it isn't an open festival, it is a rather expensive event at $50 a ticket. Oh well, no Australia festival for me!

[Star_Anise]

Haha, I'm really curious as to what an Australia festival would be like too! It's a pity you can't make it, but you'll just have to see the real thing some day. We're celebrating Australia Day on Tuesday so there's been the usual coverage of what makes Australia, Australia...maybe that'd be easier if we knew what those Aussie hors d'ouvres wil be. Kangaroo, crocodile, emu? We do like to eat our coat of arms.

[margaine]

Ah, Australia day . . . that kind-of makes sense about the festival then. Furthermore! "Pet Society" a silly game I play on facebook is also celebrating Australia. I don't log on to it that often. But in the game you can "buy" things for your pet with "money" you earn by doing things in the game (you can also use real money to up your fake money, which I find horrifying). So they have a lot of Australian items this week . . . kangaroo toys, a boomerang, beachwear, and a picture window with a view of the Sydney opera house. ;) I wasn't entirely sure they were doing Australian-themed items until I got to the picture window, and then I was certain.

[margaine]

In case you were wondering what those hors d’ouevres were . . .



S.B.'s First Annual Australia Day Festival
Aussies Gathered at Union Ale Brewing Co. to Celebrate their Nation’s Holiday

Wednesday, January 27, 2010

Last Saturday night, the local Aussie community came together at Union Ale Brewing Co. Event Center to celebrate Australia Day, which can be described as the Land from Down Under’s 4th of July. The event went from 4 p.m. until late into the evening, featuring imported Australian beer and wine, Aussie Gourmet hor d’oeuvres, live musical performers and broadcasting of Australian sporting events. The event was put on by a group of local Aussies including Shannon Leggett and Martin Brown, general manager of Kalyra Winery. Leggett said that while local Aussies have been celebrating their nation’s holiday for years in Santa Barbara, this is the first year that they have moved it out of a private home and into a public venue. Coopers Brewery — an Australian made and owned family brewery — co-sponsored the event.

Initially, the event was $44 for Wine Club members, $50 for General Admission and $66 for VIP. Event organizer Shannon Leggett decided to change it to free admission after only 50 people paid. He told The Independent that they wanted the best turnout possible for the event, so they just charged for beer, wine and hor d’oueuvres. Before 7 p.m., the venue was only partially full with local Aussies and supporters casually drinking and enjoying gourmet Aussie favorites such as meat pies, sausage rolls, vegemite bites, shrimp from the barbie, and kangaroo and lamb skewers. After 7 p.m. however, the venue filled up fast, and Martin Brown, GM of Kalyra Winery, exclaimed that, “The whole Santa Barbara Aussie community is here!”

Around 9 p.m., the live musical performances began. Dave Winstone, Aussie folk singer, covered the Aussie classic rock hits and singer Katie Cole played a live acoustic set on stage. Cole was born and raised in Melbourne, Australia and recently moved to L.A. to pursue her songwriting career. Her Sheryl Crowesque style gave a relaxed and authentic vibe to the event and when asked why she decided to perform at the gala she replied that she wanted to support her country and her culture and couldn’t ask for a better opportunity than at the Australia Day Festival.

Australia Day is the celebration of the first fleet of British settlers to Port Jackson in 1788. Their celebrations and traditions are similar to those of 4th of July in America and include picnics and barbecues, parades, citizenship ceremonies, and a voted Australian of the Year. For some Australians, the day is controversial because British colonialism destroyed many indigenous cultures. The Aborigine community sometimes refers to the holiday as Invasion Day, and a Santa Barbara local who just moved back from Australia indicated that they were hesitant about attending the event at Union Ale because of the adverse effects that British settlement has had on Australia’s indigenous population throughout history.

Overall, Union Ale was packed with laughter, conversation, and a mix of Aussies, Santa Barbara locals, and tourists who stumbled upon the event. “Oy!” could be heard until late into the night by jersey-sporting Aussies who were drinking and celebrating their national holiday alongside the local community of Santa Barbara.

[Star_Anise]

Haha, very far from gourmet. But stereotypically Aussie, yes.

But I must point out that the traditional cry is not at all, "Oy", it must be a cry of "Aussie Aussie Aussie!" answered by "Oi! Oi! Oi!". :)

[margaine]

But I must point out that the traditional cry is not at all, "Oy", it must be a cry of "Aussie Aussie Aussie!" answered by "Oi! Oi! Oi!". :)

I learned that at summer camp actually. :) But I didn't realize - til now! - it was a real Australian thing. The camp director was Australian and she'd get the whole camp to yell in chorus. I thought it was just some weird thing she did.

[Star_Anise]

I learned that at summer camp actually. :) But I didn't realize - til now! - it was a real Australian thing. The camp director was Australian and she'd get the whole camp to yell in chorus. I thought it was just some weird thing she did.

Hehe, no, she has a lot of company in doing it:)

[ReallyasypE]

Another Trailfinders recommendation, not always the cheapest but they know what theyre at. Ive organised three trips to Australia and a round-the-world trip with them in the last ten years.

[G L Wilson]

There are big waves at Margaret River, Western Australia; and the wine's good, I'm told.

Come over, and I'll throw Paul Hogan on the barbie for you. We can watch him dance.